Alita Blanchard on Honest, Messy Motherhood, Parenting through Grief and Loss and Raising Boys
Today I chat with Alita Blanchard who is a parent coach.
We chat about:
Her experience with postnatal depression, baby loss and her inner work journey
The importance of listening to feelings and how we can protect our own capacity for listening
Authenticity in parenting, honest and messy motherhood - Re-parenting ourselves and self-compassion
Rites of passage particularly for young boys
Aggression and frustration in boys, the Boy Code and impact of societal stereotypes
Feeling triggered by our kids’ behaviours
Being okay with setting boundaries to care for ourselves
Alita is a mother of 4 young boys (including one in the stars) on the NSW Central Coast. She is a certified Conscious Parent Coach, Rites of Passage facilitator and holds Mothers Circle and events to support mothers who feel lost and overwhelmed within mothering. Alita supports mothers in normalising anger and healthy aggression, softening expectations, building self compassion and bringing awareness to their own needs and emotions so that they can feel more aligned to their values and connected to themselves AND their children.
She has some upcoming events: Mothers Retreats: rest, connection, sharing - coming soon in NSW. Sign up for email updates at www.theawaremama.com.au
Instagram - alitablanchard_parentcoach
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:09
Hello love and welcome to the Manage chatters podcast. If you're keen to ditch all of the parenting shoulds and want to uncomplicate sleep and parenting, you are in the right place, through honest conversations with experts and each other, we will help you to cut through all of the noise and to love the heck out of your imperfect and authentic parenting. I'm Fiona, a social worker by trade. Now supporting families with sleep and parenting through my business mama matters. I'm passionate about parenting psychology, biologically normal infants sleep and infant mental health and attachment. I'm also a parent and I am on a mission to normalize the shitshow that can be parenthood. I know that right now you might be trapped under a sleeping baby. Or maybe you've got your headphones in to soften the blue of the afternoon witching hour, wherever and whoever you are. I want you to know that you belong here. Now, let's have a chat Hello, hello my lambs. I hope you're well I hope you've had a nice week full of sunshine and cuddles and minimal sickness because everybody I talked to at the moment is dealing with so much sickness in their house. But I hope this will bring you some sunshine because today I am speaking with a liter Blanchard who was apparent coach. But before we get stuck in I just wanted to let you guys know that I still have that free workshop on normal baby sleep in the first three years of life. So that is passing through all of the bullshit giving you all the stats what the research says about what is normal about night waking, night feeds, self settling, all of those sorts of things. So head over there. And when you do, you'll sign up to the mama matters Academy waitlist, which is where you want to be because I am opening doors again really soon. The last time that I did a live round of them on the matters Academy was back in, oh gosh, maybe February or March. It was a long time ago. And I am so excited to open doors again. I've made some little upgrades and I'm always making it better. So it's a four week group coaching program, you can either you know sit in the back row and talk amongst your friends and pass notes and just getting in on the content. Or you can show up to each live call for weeks and get involved in the group coaching and the moms club. So if you are keen to connect with a bunch of like minded mamas to move away from the mainstream parenting and sleep paradigm, and just up level with a buttload of content around attachment, infant mental health, circle of security, child behavior, emotions development, motherhood, transition to motherhood, mature essence, relationships, identity, everything that would possibly relate to use in your parenthood journey. It's all here and it's with a group of friends. So if you're interested, I will put the link in the show notes here and I would love to see you in our next live round. Okay, back to a liter. So Aleta is a parent coach. You might follow her on Instagram, she has some absolutely gold content. She is a mother of four young boys, including a little one in the stars. And she's from the New South Wales Central Coast. She's a certified conscious parent coach rites of passage facilitator, and holds mother circles and events to support mothers who feel lost and overwhelmed within mothering. She supports mothers in normalizing anger, unhealthy aggression, softening expectations, building self compassion, and bringing awareness to their own needs and emotions so that they can feel more aligned to their values and connected to themselves and their children. A leader is so down to earth and has such a beautiful energy about her. I can't explain it. You just have to hear it and feel it. She is such an advocate for honest and messy motherhood and just being our authentic selves, as parents as women as people and I think you will know what I mean when you hear this conversation. So I hope you enjoy this interview. It's not really an interview. It's more like a chat between friends. But let me know and follow Aleta over on Instagram at Aleta Blanshard underscore parent coach. Welcome Aleta. I am so happy to have you here on the potty.
Alita Blanchard 04:31
Thank you. I'm very happy to be here and honored.
Fiona Weaver 04:33
Thank you. No I am honored. I have been following you on Instagram for so long. And I just find that the goodness that you produce with compassion for mothers understanding mothers and where they come from and how how they mother other challenges and tribulations I think is just beautiful. I think your work is so beautiful. So I'm really happy to have you here today. So do you want to get started and tell us a little bit about who you are who you Using your family and what you do for this work,
Alita Blanchard 05:03
thank you. So I am a mother of four boys. I have a 10 year old nine year old and a six year old. And then a little boy in the stars. His name is Remy. He was stillborn, five years ago. And as hard as that was, he was also the opening to a very big growth journey for me. So I, after I lost my son, I've been following a we're parenting and hand in hand parenting, peaceful parenting for many, many years since my second son was born. And I love all those philosophies, and I certainly align with all of those. But after my son passed, I went into a deep grief. And it was intensely hard to be the kind of mother I wanted to be to my three little ones who were five, four and two at the time, to be the present mum for them and to play and connect when I was in despair. So that sent me on a big grief, grief, journey and healing journey. And I did do therapy, I went to a lot of women's circles, and I had to spend a lot of time in nature just to find what I understand now is more regulation and more peace. But yeah, it's brought me to the work I do now, which is someone who can be, I hope, very empathic, very understanding of all the challenges that come up within parenting understanding of, you know, people's mental health struggles, because I've been there as well. And the season before grief, I have postnatal depression for a while, and I love supporting moms and holding space for their feelings, and just normalizing all the stuff that comes up. And the further I'm getting into my parenting journey of my, my three beautiful, sensitive, sweet and very raucous boys, the more I'm seeing that, you know, we need to normalize all the big feelings that come up with a motherhood. And for me, that's been normalizing my own feelings first, so I can open my heart to hold space for everything that comes up within them. Because, you know, in a season of year challenge for us, I wasn't as regulated as I could have been, and the impact of one of my boys in particular, he'd started candy, he had a fair few challenges, and they've continued over the years. So yeah, I've had to step up into my growth work. And, you know, as we were just touching on before, the perfectionism that I carry, you know, the certain kind of belief that I needed to be, you know, the perfect mom and meet their every need, and have a clean home and you know, good friendships, and all of those things just came crashing down. And I had to do the deep inner inner work to understand my shame stories. So that's been my motherhood journey. I'm originally from New Zealand, I've lived in Australia for 20 years. Yeah, I went to boarding school for five years. And that's interesting, because as my child is, my eldest is hitting the preteens I can feel some of my board or boarding school stories starting to come up. And I just I say that because so often in this work, we get triggered by our children. And they've seen us on a growth journey, and it is a chance to look back at, you know, our own life story that we often just coped with survived, you know, suppressed, and, yeah, that stuff's coming up now. And I had a great time at boarding school, and I loved it. And there was lots of lots of interesting challenges there as well. So yeah, just touch on it, because this the work never stops, right. But we have to accept the messiness of it all.
Fiona Weaver 08:20
Yes, I love that. Because I think that I mean, even especially in the social media world, and all of the advice and the recommendations that we get that if this, then that, or instead of saying this, say this, and all this scripts and things, it doesn't take into consideration the person behind the script, or it doesn't take into consideration the child on the other end of the script, it feels like it's a quick fix. So it's really tempting to hold on to that stuff. But it doesn't take into consideration the the mother behind it all the child in front of us.
Alita Blanchard 08:52
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I followed all those pages with scripts and, and you know, the type of the way you needed to hold space for your children's big feelings. And I would try the scripts off the sides. And I just said, you know, I'm straight to the point, I'm very firm with my children, you know, there's a lot of boundaries in our home. And, you know, I get to be me, and that's the message, I want to get out to moms as you get to be you, but you might need to go on a bit of a journey to find who that actually is, who you are, who's your authentic self. Because, you know, and I think this ties into the work of Gabor Matta of how we grow up, desperately needing to be accepted, right. It's that building that attachment, and we learn to suppress our feelings and and become a certain person in the world. And then we get to this place of motherhood and realize, actually, I want to find me and be authentic, but to be the authentic me, I'm going to have to set boundaries with people and that feels really scary. And I'm going to have to face fear and judgment from others. And that's big. That's really exhausting. And then we've got to find support systems and you know, so I didn't mention in my intro, I'm a conscious parent coach or a parent Coach have many different parenting modalities, you know, choose your word, connected conscious parenting, and I hold mother's circles and workshops. And I support a lot of mums through anger and aggression both in themselves and their kids. And what I am really leaning into these days is how much we probably don't need more parenting advice. We just need more parenting support. So safe spaces and supportive spaces to feel heard and seen and, and feel accepted just as we are. And you know, that's the goal. That's the goal and start being a bit more vulnerable about the stuff that's going on behind closed doors, because it's missing in a lot of homes.
Fiona Weaver 10:37
So you mentioned there that you you are conscious parenting coach, or connected parenting or whatever label you want to give it. Why are you reluctant to use a label in that term, because I love to speak to the nuance of you're putting yourself in a box, and I am a gentle parent. I'm a respectful parent, I am, you know, all of that stuff. What's your take on that? So
Alita Blanchard 10:59
I'll speak I'll speak to those first. So the reason I don't use gentle, peaceful, mindful, respectful is because I followed all those philosophies for years. And they just added to my feeling of shame, because eventually I would yell, I would rage I would do something with my children that I would agree if that wasn't peaceful and wasn't gentle. And then I would punish myself for days, if not weeks. And you know, a lot of it is attached to my own. My own attachment style, my feeling and my limiting beliefs of not being good enough. Like there's a lot of stuff being weighed down. And that's, you know, that's my own. My own work that I've unpacked for years and therapy and why offered the work I do now. I followed a we're parenting and hand in hand parenting very closely. And I love those philosophies about listening to feelings, listened to tears and tantrums. But even then, I still had a feeling of like, I'm not doing this, right, I'm not listening to enough tears, I'm not listening to enough feelings. I'm never doing enough attachment play, because it's not my genius area at all. And then when I found the work of Dr. Shefali, and I was in my season of grief, then it really resonated you know, this, like, it's our work of our internal work, it's parenting is so much more about us, then our children. And so I've really landed in that space of conscious parenting resonates the most for me. However, I will say that Dr. Shefali has worked feels way too psychospiritual. For me, I don't understand half the things she says it's all very much, you know, essence and will and their soul contracts and very spiritual, which, you know, I have a spiritual practice, but I'm also a farmer's daughter like, right, let's we're gonna clean together, get these things done. And then we can watch TV like yeah, it was it was a bit too much. And what I found too, is that when we say the word conscious, sometimes people think that's all like, you know, yoga, meditation, and wholesome organic food and crunchy granola and wearing linen. And that's not me either. There was a version of me back in the early years of mothering, I thought, I'm nailing this because all my foods organic and I activated my nuts.
Fiona Weaver 12:59
I could just hear the confidence in your voice, though, about who you are now and being totally okay with that with all of your, you know, you don't fall into any box, you're just you. So authentically you.
Alita Blanchard 13:11
And that's what I want to get across, I guess in my work is like, you'll know whether you need to be supported by me whether you will feel safe by me. And I always say to you know, potential clients, like if I trigger you in some way or you feel like, you know, the energy is not right, then go and find someone to support you that you do feel safe with, I may not be that person for you. We're not for everyone. And that's okay. And, you know, so my, I guess my philosophy and parenting, it's still very much underpinned by, you know, building secure attachment, emotional intelligence, normalizing anger and aggression, holding space for feelings, but self compassion first, you know, acknowledging your messiness, and, you know, yeah, building that compassion for us so that we can build it for our children. So I don't know what term it is apparently, connected parenting is trademarked. So that's the other thing that matters in the parenting space. We can't use that word because I'm just a parent coach.
Fiona Weaver 14:07
I can totally relate to all of this. I call myself something different every time I introduce myself, and I just landed on honest because you know, when I talk about sleep support, Mike, I don't want to be part of any box. And it's just honest, it's just down to earth. It's honest, it's truthful, it's added I it's just a word that hasn't been taken yet, as well. And it feels right for me. And I'll probably change it one day to haven't trade back to the word because we're fluid and we're evolving. Absolutely. So what I really wanted to talk to you today about was raising boys, and I was laughing with you before we hit record because it feels a little bit selfish of me because I've got a six year old boy and I think sometimes like, what do I do with it? And I'm the first person in my group of friends to have a child. And so he's always the oldest and he's a boy. He's opposite to me. And I think that as he gets older Whatever more I feel like I need to level up. And the more I go back to the Megadeth books and think, am I am I still doing what's best for him here? Or does he need dad more in this situation? Or? Yeah, always trying to grow alongside him. So you've got three boys, four boys. How old? Do you say they were? 10? Nine. And
Alita Blanchard 15:21
so 10, nine, 610? nine
Fiona Weaver 15:25
and six. Okay, what have you got?
Alita Blanchard 15:29
So my 10 year old, my eldest and I really find this with a lot of the mums. I did a poll a while ago that said 76 76% of them said that their eldest is the most challenging, and I really believe that eldest is the one that grows us, right? And, you know, he, my eldest is incredible in so many ways, but he has brought me all the growth. He's the reason I do conscious parenting, I guess, or my version of it, because it's just really interesting seeing when he gets defiant, disrespectful, aggressive, to RAF, obstinate, like all the things what it brings up in me, and often it brings up the father voice with it from my childhood of like you'll do as you're told, or else and then I'm like, Whoa, that's not the kind of white mum I want to be. So I can very clearly remember the first time he was about five and he turned around and said no, to me, and my whole body just had a visceral reaction. And it was very much like your does your your do, as your bloody told was what I wanted to say, I didn't. But I really set with it that don't like wow, he's, I've got work to do here. And because, you know, I look back on our journey for the first three years of his life, I suppressed all those feelings like it was a pretty cruisy baby, he was relatively easy. Try a little bit of sleep training, and then realized that's definitely not for me, I don't align with it at all. It just felt painful. But I definitely put he I wasn't able to breastfeed him. So it failed. I exclusively pumped for six months, which was a mammoth effort. But then we moved on to bottles, and anytime we cry, I just give them another bottle. So I feed him far too much and suppress those feelings and stop the tears with lots of petting and shushing. I remember lying on the floor, you're petting him at night and thinking, Alright, this is just what you do. Because I wasn't able to listen to his tears while holding him watches the big growth during my second son took me took me on and took me to a weird parenting. So because of that, and another a number of other challenges, you know, in the first five years of parenting and are losing a son of my own personal depression, he's got all of these little peccadilloes that challenge me, he's got a bit of anxiety. And it comes up as quick to low frustration tolerance, which is which means quick to aggression. And yeah, that's really challenging. So hence, I talk now about, you know, healthy aggression reliefs and normalizing anger because I've had to go on a big journey for that myself. So yeah, he's had a Grammy for sure. My second child, he came out screaming and did not stop. So none of that stuff works. Putting him back, I was able to breastfeed him. But putting him back on the boob. I was feeding him to sleep. And then he'd have like, these 20 minutes sleeps all over the place. And I was just a wreck by for months, I had chronic sleep deprivation. And I was just a shell of a person not really be able to be present for my little toddler. And then I stumbled across the article on crying and loving arms. And I know we've had some chats about this. I really love the philosophy of when our baby's needs are met, and they're still needing to cry, we can just get really still and hold them in our arms and look them in the eyes and sound here and I'm listening and let them cry. You know, now, I think this has taken to extreme in some areas. And I've read stories of people holding their baby thinking they need to get all the tears out to release their pain, stress and trauma, and they've held them for like, you know, hours on end and like, No, we need to bring in some nervous system regulation there. And how are you feeling in your body because obviously, as I learned about nervous system science, they so need us to co regulate with them. And I think a lot of women, you are reading some of the work of a we're parenting and just thinking I need I need them to release all the tears and then they'll sleep better because that's the message that sometimes comes across. And you know, if you're in fear and anxiety while you're holding a crying baby, they're not going to get that CO regulation that they need. So I mean, we're parenting and hand in hand always, you know, they always suggest that you have lots of listening time for people to listen to your feelings. And you know, be doing that sort of deeper inner work. But for me when I read this article about crying and loving arms, I started practicing it with my four year old four month old son and all of his other needs were met. I got really still in my rocking chair. I had tissues in my ear because he was just super loud. But I held him and I thought I had it in my head. I was gonna I was gonna give it a go for 20 minutes and just see how it went. And I must know I would admit I was in terror. Just the idea of listening To him cry because it's so normalized and society, right, we've conditioned to, you know, put dummies in and rock them and pack them and all the things. But I listened to him for 20 minutes. And after it was, after about 20 minutes, he just had the most beautiful release and his whole body softened. I can I just get I get tingles remembering it because it was just like a visceral, like, Ah, this is exactly what he needed. And he was softened into my arms, and he slept for like, two hours for the first time ever. And, you know, I'm not saying it's a miracle cure, I think it's just something to consider alongside all the other holistic, you know, possibilities for children that, you know, mean, there's so many issues within tolerances, and, you know, how's your nervous system going? Can you hold space for your child's tears, all those sorts of things. But for me, it started a big, a big awakening, to be honest, that's from a psycho spiritual perspective, I guess. Like it felt like a veil was being lifted. And I was like, wow, I didn't know the tears were healing. And then I would look around everyone with my toddler and see how everyone wanted to suppress his tears with food, and distraction, and TV. And, you know, everyone wanted to stop the crying babies. And yes, they need support, and they need love and comfort and soothing. But we're so desperate to stop the tears, that sometimes we don't let them have that healthy release, because that's what crying is, right? Yes, it's a communication for babies. But also it can be that release of pain and stress and trauma, especially from a traumatic birth that they made. And so that really changed everything for me that day. And about four months later, we also cut out gluten and then I had a completely new baby. So that was my eyes areas and took us on a big health journey. And yeah, so and he has always been taught from that day, I started listening to my babies tears, my toddlers tears and tantrums and started realizing that I probably needed someone to listen to. And so I went to start therapy as well. And that, you know, that was the start of a very big growth journey. And my first son, I listened to his tears from the day he was born, you know, always when he was fed, he was well, he was dry, and all his needs were met. And if he was still crying, rather than rocking and patting and shushing, when using dummies, I just held him and I listened. And he's a cruiser, he's so easy. He has he has little, you know, little tantrums, but I can just bring them into my arms and hold on to my body. And he just Sue's and releases, like, you know, within moments. Now, I'm not saying it's all connected, you know, maybe it's just your temperament, maybe it's character. But I really deeply believe that when we can normalize listening to healthy tears and working on our nervous system regulation, offering the open heart that it can really help our children to release some of that bigger stuff. That's the absolute talk about that one piece.
Fiona Weaver 22:54
I get it though. And in circle of security, we're calling it being with so rather than trying to move our kids through their difficult feelings, then we're just with them in it with them to say, Yep, I hear I see you I'm here with you. I know it's hard. It's gonna be okay. You know, we are okay with we're safe, and just letting it unfold. And I know that with, like, with big tantrums, and whatnot, that I remember in those toddler years, I remember when nothing would actually really help, you know, did he didn't want to cuddle, he didn't want to go outside and there was nothing, you just had to wait, right? ride out the storm, and then just sit on the ground. And I would just be there. And I would say, I'm here. I'm here when you're ready. I'm here if you need me. And then eventually, the anger or, you know, we say tears move from mad to sad, that anger would move to just complete despair and surrender, and his body would stop hitting me and would just flop into my lap. And I really thought about that when you were saying you remember that feeling of your, your your baby's body getting so heavy and just relaxing. And that's that ultimate release? Isn't it after a tantrum or a big cry, just and then just folding into your body and accepting that comfort? was just the most beautiful thing?
Alita Blanchard 24:12
It is it's the most beautiful thing and how much do we need that? As mothers and as fathers as parents and I think this for me, has been my greatest journey, especially you know, after some tough seasons is actually I need people to hold me at my most dysregulated I need to be able to share my most vulnerable stories. I need to be able to cry, and rage and scream and roar and, you know, start releasing some of the intensely suppressed emotions that have been held in my body since probably birth. You know, I know enough of you know, my family environment to know that the emotions were suppressed. You know, it's no blame on anyone. It just is the way it was very much back then. This is most families right? Yeah, emotions are suppressed. It's like, yeah, you know, leave them alone to cry in the room. aim or attachment parenting was very, you know, on Vogue, and back in the 70s. It was like meet every need. And I see so many of the attachment parents still they come into my space and they're exhausted, they've hit complete burnout because they've tried to hit, you know, meet their babies every single night and never let them cry and,
Fiona Weaver 25:18
and at the detriment of their own well being, yeah, yeah,
Alita Blanchard 25:21
I just hit burnout because they like it's not working. And I've just got this fully, like, aggressive child, and they're hitting me. And I'm like, that's pretty normal for two and three year olds.
Fiona Weaver 25:29
That's not working triggering, right? Yeah, yeah, I hear that all the time. But it's not working. Like what does working mean? What does working look like? That there'll be you know, just well behaved beautiful little children at all times. That's not working. To me, that means that something's not working. Yeah, I think it's such a powerful message, isn't it when we when we show our kids to the best of our ability, depending on our own resilience and our own experiences, but to show them that we are not overwhelmed by their big feelings, therefore, they don't need to be either, that we can, we can handle their big feelings, and they can handle them as well. I think it's such a powerful message.
Alita Blanchard 26:07
It's the message we all need, right? We're meant to feel and how, you know, how much does the message still, like, a good feeling? Or is it a bad feeling? Are you being a girl or a bad boy? All right, man, we have so much work to do.
Fiona Weaver 26:21
We've got so much
Alita Blanchard 26:22
feelings, feelings, and we have to be, we truly have to be able to feel our own. And that, you know, that's a really big journey for a lot of us. So that we can show up, you know, and hold space for our children's feelings. And then you add in the nervous system piece, right and how much most of us are stuck in fight flight freeze, especially after the last two years and ongoing sickness. And then you know, perfectionism ideals and the exhaustion of motherhood or the mental load and on and on it goes, it's like, this is why we need more honest Missy motherhood, like Yeah, you know, we want to build a secure attachment. We want to build emotionally intelligent children, we want to teach them emotional regulation. And it's a long game. And it starts with us knowing that our needs matter. And that's hence why there's all that stuff about self care, like true self care, which looks a bit messy and boring, and not very Instagram worthy, right.
Fiona Weaver 27:15
It's not a soaker bath house. Yes. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's hard work, right? Like, that's why people avoid doing it. Because it's way harder than just, you know, getting the scripts and doing what you're told, and going to get your nails done. That's, that sounds a lot easier, it's a bit more. It just, it just doesn't work. Because it's not the not the long term game.
Alita Blanchard 27:40
And it may work for some, you know, you may be lucky with, you know, perhaps you've got a secure attachment and your child is relatively chill. But what I'm noticing is that a lot of the people that come into my space, you know, they do have deep layers of trauma suppressed feelings, you know, big trauma and little trauma and disorganized avoidant attachment, you know, severely dysregulated nervous systems, and they don't even know where to start. They're like, you know, I'm doing all the scripts and then following gentle parenting on the following aware parenting, I'm listening to all the feelings and it's getting harder. Things had 30 is hard and your needs matter. And you're gonna have to go on this big journey of making sense of yourself and why you are the way you are. I mean, this is, you know, this is the work of Dan Siegel and Tina Paine, Bryson. And you know, in the work of like, the power of showing up and building that coherent narrative and why we get angry and why we yell and rage and why perhaps we grabbed our child to heart and drag them to timeout even though Oh, I'm a gentle parent. I'm a peaceful parent. What just happens there?
Fiona Weaver 28:41
Yeah, I know that. I did it. Yeah, yeah. So something that I find triggering a lot and a lot of mothers do is aggression in our kids are really big outbursts of anger. And that Defiance is so triggering. What is that about in our boys especially? Hmm,
Alita Blanchard 29:07
yeah, I mean, in my work, we, I've gotten a big, big journey to normalize healthy anger and healthy aggression. And it is just energy in the body that needs to come out. And, you know, if they've got some painful feelings, some unmet needs, they're hungry, angry, anxious, lonely, tired stress, like all the things that we all feel often, you know, they're gonna get dysregulated and I don't have that, you know, that well built nervous system yet they do depend on us for CO regulation. And, you know, eventually they're gonna get triggered by the friend that said, the main the main thing, or they're just tired at the end of the tether, and the fastest way for them to move energy out of the body is you know, the tantrum hitting full on aggression, you know, and yeah, it's triggering especially for us as moms right? Because my child's bad the violent they're gonna grow up to be a psychopath. You We go into all the stories about it was like, actually, it's just healthy, aggressive energy. And the more we can be, as you say, be with them in that. And yeah, we're going to need to set boundaries. And we're going to need to somebody's got to move into fights, I've stepped in between, and I've caught a couple of like, you know, punches to the face and had a pair of spectacles broken. And it's, it's very intense, raising three boys. And we've been through some really challenging seasons, and both my husband and I have got our stuff. So, you know, I come from a very honest place, like it's messy in our home and all the time, but we keep showing up, right, because we committed to like being a connected family. Well, hopefully over the long term,
Fiona Weaver 30:41
I find that sometimes there's just such a level of tension in my son and I, it's really easy to get caught up in, you know, just setting more boundaries and coming down harder, and like, come on, you gotta stop antagonizing your sister, and you just looks like he's out to. I don't want to sweat. But it looks like he's out to fuck Shut up. Like he's here. And he's sending the message, that he's looking for trouble. And he will do anything to find it. And it's just so triggering because we're like, just stop. But I know in those moments, and when I am on my A game, and I was having this chat with Dr. Sophy the other day on her podcast, that if I'm on my A game, I'm just like, Alright, let's go have a pillow fight. And I just make it so that he is just so powerful. And he knocks me down he gets to feel that sense of winning and powerful and strengthen gets all his energy out. But then as well, often I feel like I'm going to do everything right today do everything right. There's that that language, that narrative. But after school today, I'll pick him up and I'll take him to the beach and let him run run himself ragged for like, a couple of hours. And then I come home and I expect everything to be so calm and lovely and him to be so regulated. And then he's still psycho. And I'm like, No, I did everything right today. I also sometimes think we completely underestimate just how much they need in terms of releasing their energy and whatnot. And I wonder how much TV and video games and things really gets in the way of that?
Alita Blanchard 32:17
Yeah. And I think we do need to take a holistic perspective. I mean, this can feel really overwhelming. But I think our kids, you know, they all have probably far too much sugar, too much screen time. You know, we put them in a school system that isn't nurturing to their little bodies needs to be out climbing trees and rumbling, you know, in a perfect world, they wouldn't have sugar, they wouldn't have screens, they'd be you know, climbing trees all day. And they would have wise, you know, mentors, both men and women of all different ages, like the village right, really playing with incredible games and helping them to move big energy and whittling in the forest from five years old, and all that sort of stuff. But that's not the world we live in. When I have one child in particular, that gets you know, as aggression goes through, we don't do a lot of screentime pretty boundaried around that we have sort of like an hour a week. I'm like, I'm the weird one that doesn't do a lot of video video games. We do have a bit of tally. Yeah. But you know, it's an I do pull back on the crappy food, the sugar and screens when it's getting out of control. And I do Lean on some support systems like getting some additional nervous system care from an osteopath. And, yeah, if I had money and time and finances, there would be a lot more I would do to support my child holistically. But the best thing I can do, and the biggest change that I found within our home, was me normalizing that anger is just, you know, a feeling it's an emotion that needs to be moved through the body. But aggression can be healthy. And it's just like a dysregulated nervous system. It just needs that big powerful release. Yes, it comes up generally more for boys, but not always, the girls need to move it just as much as well. But we definitely see that bigger energy with boys. And I think there is something really primal in that right. And, you know, it's like that Hunter, that big hunter energy now the way they pick up sticks, and they just want to fight it out. Like, I don't remember doing that much as a girl. No, no, I know, there's a lot of discussions around gender and the way we raise our babies right from the start and, and all that kind of stuff. It absolutely matters. For me when I can when I can see that aggression happening in my boys. Generally I know that underneath that is yes, they may have some unmet needs, like now they're hungry, they're tired, you know, something really horrible happened at school, you know? And I'm not always going to find out the answer. You know, generally I will come with the snacks and the water. You know, once we've had some regulation time, but more often than not, you know, it's a fear, a feeling of fear or just intense frustration that just needs to come out and they don't have the words right. Half the time we don't have the words for our feelings as adults. And this is all the stuff about emotion coaching children and like, we just need to teach them to connect with their feelings and like, that's great. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that for us too. Right? Because I think I've got about Matt, I've got one Between feeling words mad, sad, bad, glad, happy, joyous. Yeah, this is a thing to build emotional intelligence and our kids, we've got to build it within ourselves as well. And that's a big journey. I think, as well,
Fiona Weaver 35:15
just giving it space to space to work through as well. Like, if I'm feeling anxious or something, I will feel it in my body before I'll feel it better be able to make sense of it in my mind. And I'll have you know, we were just talking before we hit record about I was having a week where I just was really inward and reflective and feeling something I couldn't really make sense of, and I've, I feel that anxiety, I feel a funny feeling in my tummy, I feel tense in my body, I feel quiet, I feel reflective and inward. And then about usually like a week later, even stuff starts to kind of make a little bit more sense. And I get some clarity, clarity around that. I know with my my son and my kids in general, I always want to know what's happening for them. And I do, I do have to consciously pull back and just, you know, create those safe spaces. But also, not pry not try to get to the bottom of everything, because there's just so intense and intrusive for them as well.
Alita Blanchard 36:15
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it sitting with an need to desperately know what is what is it? Did someone hurt you? Was someone mean? Was it the teacher? You know, it was a me? Am I not doing a good job? Am I not enough as your mom like? They need to be better and they will not be happy. You know? It's like, yeah, it's kind of this conditioning that we're raised with, like, I just want my child to be happy. These days. I'm like,
Fiona Weaver 36:40
yeah, like, that's a lot of pressure for them. And
Alita Blanchard 36:43
sometimes, yeah, yeah. And your, your, your child is gonna make so many mistakes. And they're going to have all this challenging behavior, because they're human. And we all do. And if your dream is just for them to be happy, then you're barking up the wrong tree, and you're going to exhaust yourself and probably, you know, really sit them with a heavyweight of perfectionism because they have to show you a Look, ma'am, I'm happy. Yes, um, you know, what they we need wholeness. We all just want to feel our authentic wholeness. And how do we do that? It's by making all of their feelings, no. Okay. Even the, you know, the tears and the Tantrums and the meltdowns and the anger and the rage and the sadness and the grief, like they just need to be felt. And yes, we help them make sense of them. Like, you know, my children know that it's completely okay to cry, and they won't be suppressed, almost ever in our home. And then they go to soccer camp. And you know, the young soccer coach is like, get up. You're okay, you're fine. Come on, toughen up. And my son was distraught when I picked them up. My six year old is like, they won't listen to my feelings. At least I will. I didn't make the Soccer Coaches bad or wrong. I explained, you know, they just young guys, they don't listen to their feelings. You don't have time
Fiona Weaver 37:53
to listen to the feelings in that moment as well. Yeah.
Alita Blanchard 37:58
That's not, that's not the job. But you know, I'm your safe space for that. And I'll listen to anything that comes up as long as I have capacity. And I use these words with my kids now like, I'm, you know, I don't have capacity to listen to what's coming up all this. Now, I don't have capacity to play in this moment. But I can see there's lots of things going on. Let's make a cup of tea and snuggle. And I'm really honest about where I'm at. And I've made made it my mission to try and talk about my feelings and needs. So like I'm feeling rather than to say why is no one listening to me. Right? Like I'm feeling irritation, feeling an irritation in my body, and I'm feeling quite unheard. I have a need for cooperation.
Fiona Weaver 38:44
I love it. Because it's it can also feel playful. Yeah, yeah.
Alita Blanchard 38:49
And I'm practicing it when I practice it with my kids. I'm trying to you know, fumble through these words like this is nonviolent communication. I fumble through it. I'm still learning it, but I'm modeling it to them, imperfectly, and giving them you know, a beautiful way to communicate and relationship which I am still trying to figure out.
Fiona Weaver 39:08
I know rather than everyone trying to get out the door and the amount of times I'm like, Why have I been doing anything? Why is nobody doing what I need them to do to get out of the house? Why is this all on me? But it doesn't help it just makes me feel stress. I love that, you know as my son is getting older now as well. And, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with Donald Winnicott and good enough parenting and good enough mothering so it's it's actually really healthy and helpful for our our relationships with our kids to let them down and really tolerable ways. That is resilience building. So there's been a couple of times where I've forgotten to order talk shop for my son or everybody got these things that they they got school photos the other day and I forgot to put the order form in for school photos so I didn't get them. So literally everybody in the classroom got handed their school photos and he was waiting for his and I forgot to tell him that you wouldn't be getting the school photos. So those sorts of things, and I have to really catch myself and think that's very tolerable disappointment. That's he's gonna be okay. And more often than not when I'm feeling sick about how I've let him down or, you know, I didn't prepare him for that, or whatever. Then when I talked to him about it later, I said about the school photos, I was like, really the only one who didn't get school photos. And he's like, Yeah, and I was crossing my fingers. And I was thinking, please, please have one for me, please have one for me. But she didn't. And that was it. And I was like, yeah, do you know what Naxi I, I'm good at lots of things. But remembering to get things in on time is sometimes where I fall short. And as you get older, you might be able to be, you know, helpful in that as well. And we can work it out together. But sometimes I forget to get forms in I also, that's why you didn't play sports last term. You yes, I forgot to put the form in. And I should say we, because it's not just me. But I take responsibility. Like I take charge of those things. And then I forget,
Alita Blanchard 41:06
school forms are so hard, I miss so much.
Fiona Weaver 41:09
Being a school mom is really hard work. And I
Alita Blanchard 41:13
think my favorite line now is I'm human and I make mistakes too. And mistakes help us to learn. Only honing it into them and reminding myself and my inner child like I'm allowed to make mistakes. I don't have to be perfect, like, work right? It was impossible for me to like get every dress up day in here day and even sometimes your lunch. Perfect because I'm human.
Fiona Weaver 41:36
Yeah, absolutely. And usually they're okay.
Alita Blanchard 41:39
Yeah, yeah. By find a way through it.
Fiona Weaver 41:42
Yeah, absolutely. So what you were saying before about your son going to the soccer camp and feeling as though his feelings weren't heard there, there was that language around, get up, you'll be right. You know, toughen up. I think this is a really hard pill to swallow for us sometimes as we want to do our parenting in a certain way. And we want to raise our boys in a certain way, but we cannot control every interaction they have with caregivers and people in their worlds outside. So obviously, this work is like so much bigger than just us. But what do you make of this or the boy code, the stereotypes we have around our boys
Alita Blanchard 42:21
and girls. So firstly, I always soften my own expectations around what other humans should be like, so what my partner should be like, and my family and the teachers and the sports coaches, it's like they're all probably doing their best. Most of them probably don't have an awareness of like the foundation that crying is actually healing so how could they possibly know that anger and, and rage and meltdowns are actually just a you know, a good healthy release from the nervous system like Mona della hooks work around, you know, nervous system science is incredible, but it's so new and the parenting space. I hope we can all get her work out there into schools and sports teams, but I think that's probably a couple of generations away in reality, and you know, our kids are they're gonna go out and they're gonna get implanted with the societal conditioning that we all do. You know, little girls have to be nice and quiet and small. And whatever the stories are, I think they're still very, you know, they're very common, I walk past a lady today, talking to another lady going on, he looks at pretty good. This stuff is really still so strong. And you know, in the boys, right? It's be tough, be a man hard enough, you're okay, don't be a worse, and then they get it from a lot of those boys get it from the dad, still, I see, you know, I'm in some of the forums where the dads are still very old school, and the mums, you know, there's still smacking, and everything is still so normalized. And sometimes, no, but it just is, it is what it is. And I'm not going to create a perfect human and nobody else has to be a perfect human either. But I can build my children to be resilient and understand. And this is what I say to them a lot is like, you're gonna go into school and high school and sports camps and even with, you know, people in our family, and they're going to want to shut your feelings down, or they're going to tell you to harden up and be tough. Or you know, they're going to be that teacher that says no crying at school. And it doesn't make them bad or wrong. It just is the way it is for them in the world. And I will always be here to listen to your feelings as much as I possibly can. And that's enough, and you will grow in your capacity to do the same for others. But yeah, they go to school and they get told, you know, you got to stand on your own two feet, you've got to be independent. You got to separate from mom and all things female as quickly as possible, right? The boys really get that message. Don't show any feelings except anger. So this is the interesting thing about anger is boys very much get told. You don't get to feel anything other than anger. So anger is kind of made safe with our boys. And so that is also really interesting. When we're talking about anger and aggression is that you know, I think I remember listening to something saying by age nine, that's pretty much the only feeling that they really feel safe with when they're out with it. hit when they're out with their peers, and you know, in sports teams and all that sort of thing, like, don't be vulnerable, right? That'd be vulnerable. Don't say, I'm feeling sad, because you'll just get teased, you'll get told to toughen up. You know, it's that macho behavior, you know, there's cruelty, like, I've heard of stories of the cruelty to animals and that kind of thing. Sex and porn and how much is normalized, like I've had to start, I've had to start having some conversations with my eldest ones, because the stuff they hear at school man is a lot of kids that are given access to phones and iPads. And I have a lot of issues around that. But it is what it is. But I know I've got to start talking to my kids about what porn is and start normalizing. You know, this is not a disrespectful way to be with other human beings that you love, and you're going to see pictures and hear stories, and I want you to know that you can always come to me to help you make sense of that. And I will try and make sense of it myself, right? Because it's a
Fiona Weaver 45:59
go back to Maggie didn't,
Alita Blanchard 46:01
yes. Teasing is so normal for the boys. You know, I mean, there's so much there in the boy code. It's just that deep conditioning they get from their peers, and for many of the men that are surrounded by and this is, you know, as we touched on the field before the recording why I think rites of passage work is really powerful. Creating a healthy rites of passage for our boys often done with a with the mothers and the early years that as they're from sort of nine onwards almost handing over to their dad or an uncle or some wise man within their within their field who can take them through a healthy rites of passage.
Fiona Weaver 46:42
Can you speak to that a little bit more? Just a little bit.
Alita Blanchard 46:45
So Well, my first heard about rites of passage work from Dr. Anna Rubenstein, he's got the rites of passage Institute, they're based in Byron Bay. I'm a trained facilitator, I love the work, and very much started out around helping create a healthy rites of passage for boys and men. But now it's also very much opened up to, you know, to the girls that Did mother and daughter retreats, mother and son retreats, the father and son, the making of men, and depending on what age your children at, basically, from nine onwards, you can take your child away on a camp, and it's very much focused, there's no screens, it's healthy food. It's play games, music, and sharing and circle, there's challenge and you know, based on a healthy rites of passage, which is, if I can remember it, it's taking you away from your normal community. So removal from the norm, which is the camp you're out in nature, going through a challenge, a transformation and entering almost like a liminal space, and then reintegrating back into society is like, now I'm a young, especially for the teenage boys and girls, it's you come back as a young adult. And you know, so what we have as a rite of passage in our society of school is and drinking and drugs and risky behavior. megadeal talks about all of this beautifully, and it was I found Dr. Anna through Maggie. What we want them to know is that you know, you're fit, it's important to share, we can sit in circles and share vulnerably we can share stories that there's so much learning through beautiful storytelling, healthy plays, so you know, games adventure challenge and nature, whittling making fires making music together. And you know, some pretty full on challenges, which I won't speak too much about, because that takes away the kind of, you know, the beauty of going through it with your children, but it's just a really, really powerful process. I would love that it'd be normalized, it'd be family, these camps can be expensive, but we can you can absolutely get training and the rites of passage work and create a rite of passage, just within your family, you know, get the dad on board or, you know, a wheeling uncle or granddad and you can go away camping for a weekend and create your own healthy rite of passage, especially with boys around 12 to 15. That's a beautiful time to you know, it's it's the letting go of the young boy and calling in the young man. And it's done best with community around and how much are we missing there because of the village. So yeah, together with the youth. There's a lot there's a lot there that I could go into, but I recommend everyone go and follow the rites of passage Institute. Their their work is really amazing. Yeah. And there's lots of different rites of passage organizations popping up around Australia and globally. So yeah, good one.
Fiona Weaver 49:33
I'll definitely be taking a deep dive into that. I always notice just how how incredible my son is when we are camping, when we're out in nature when he's doing all that earthy, wholesome stuff with his dad especially. It's just, I don't want to say different kid because he's incredible all the time. But he is so regulated. And we're so connected and I love it. I just love camping for our family. My Well, thank you so much for today, it's been so nice to talk to you. I feel like I could talk to you for a long, long time, about a lot of things. I really take your time, though it's been it's big. Yeah,
Alita Blanchard 50:13
there's so many so many different elements, you know, how we support ourselves as parents and how we build that feeling of community and village and feel less alone and isolated, and then how to give that to our children, but also be in self compassion for when it feels like it's failing. Like, there's so much there, you know, so much more than parenting, and it's just, it's humanity. And, you know, there's, there's a lot of reasons why we need it. Right. There's definitely a mental health crisis. And I fear that it's going to be getting worse before it gets better after the last two years. So, yeah, absolutely. I just encourage everyone to like, you know, get, get vulnerable, like find people that you can be truthful to, if it's not your therapist, or a counselor or coach, you know, reach out to people in groups and say, Hey, do you want to set up a listening partnership and just talk about our feelings? I know it sounds weird. It's awkward. It's messy. But it's so key. We've got to be able to release you know, the tough stuff to someone and other regulated adult.
Fiona Weaver 51:10
Absolutely. Find your people. I love them. Yeah. Thank you so much later, it's been lovely to talk to you and where can people find you?
Alita Blanchard 51:18
Best Places Instagram, Aleta, Blanche chard, underscore parent coach, or my website, the aware mama.com.au. And, yeah, we can get an email button from the end, I'll put a plug in I'm actually doing a rites of passage camp, hopefully in October for a mother's retreat. So we just amazing. So that's likely to be in Byron Bay with my rites of passage, mentor, kemiya. So they'll be more details about that coming soon. We'll put them up on my website. And, yeah, really, or to create any more spaces just for the moms because we need us well, we need us to know that we matter and that our needs matter and what is self compassion, like I can talk about him, but it's it's a journey to even integrate that so.
Fiona Weaver 52:06
Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much, and I will be keeping an eye out for that mother's retreat, too. All right. Thank you Alina. Alright, love.
Alita Blanchard 52:16
Thank you.
Fiona Weaver 52:17
Thank you so much for listening to mama chatters if you enjoyed this episode, let's continue the conversation on Instagram at MAMA matters.edu. Be sure to share this app with your family and friends. And don't forget if you liked it, please leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again and I will see you next time.
