Liv Davis on parenting in a same sex relationship, IVF & sperm donor processes and 'coming out' every day
Today I have a chat with my friend Liv Davis who is a nurse, a podcaster and mum of two boys. Liv is chatting with us today about being in a same sex family - of social infertility, conceiving her boys through sperm donor, how she navigates tricky conversations with new people and what she wishes all parents understood and could teach their own children about the uniqueness of families.
You can find Liv over on her own podcast The After Birth Podcast.
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me. xx
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:00
Hello, my love's I hope you are well, I'm having one of those days where I record and rerecord about 75 times, so I'm gonna keep it really short. Today I am having a chat with my friend Liv Davis, who is a nurse, a podcaster. And a mom of two little boys. Live is chatting with us today about being in a same sex family of social infertility conceiving her boys through sperm donor, how she never gets tricky conversations with new people and what she wishes all parents understood and could teach their own children about the uniqueness of families. This was such a helpful, open, honest, transparent conversation. I learned a lot from her. She's so she's so warm and open to chat about this stuff. And we are going to do a q&a on my Instagram so that you can open up with any of your questions or curiosities that you have that you can respectfully ask her as well, because she just wants to share and connect openly and authentically as well. So I hope you enjoy this conversation and Liv has her own podcast called The afterbirth podcast as well. So I will pop that in the show notes and go and give her a listen and a follow to welcome live. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you here. We have been trying to line this up for a long time. So I am excited to finally have this open and honest chat with you.
Liv 01:16
I'm excited to thank you so much for having me fee.
Fiona Weaver 01:19
You're so welcome. So do you want to start by introducing yourself and your family?
Liv 01:23
Yeah, of course. So I am live. I live on the Gold Coast with my wife, Cleo, and our two babies. I say babies, but one of them's a big boy now. So we've got Patrick, who is almost three. And we've got Charlie, who's seven months. And yeah, we also have our first baby Bambi our dog who's six? And yeah, what else?
Fiona Weaver 01:49
I'm just talking about your dog. I did not expect her name to be Bambi. Yeah, I just described her as a 35 kilo Rottweiler.
Liv 01:56
Yeah, yeah. She like a Bambi and all that. Um, yeah. No, she was our first baby. And yeah, we were just talking about our complicated relationship. I think it gets more complicated when you have kids. Hey,
Fiona Weaver 02:10
with the dog. Hmm, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we we've had our dog after our kids. So I said the other day, I can't wait to you know, not love her anymore when I have a baby, because she's so barky.
Liv 02:24
It does happen. Honestly, you resent them so much when they wake the baby. But yeah,
Fiona Weaver 02:30
I'll still love her. I just might like her for a little while.
Liv 02:33
That's it. I think my mom used to say that to me when I was a kid who?
Fiona Weaver 02:40
Old Wounds. Okay, so we are going to chat today about same sex relationships, same sex parenting, we're going to be very open and honest and authentic and messy. And I am inviting you to let me know if any of my language is insensitive or anything like that. But we are really excited to talk about what this looks like for you guys. What you wish that more people understood or knew about same sex parenting and yeah, all of that. Does that sound? Good? Yeah, absolutely. Sounds good. Let's do it. All right. So can you start from the top and let us know what your what your experience was with falling pregnant? And how all of that came about? How did you meet Cleo? Or that?
Liv 03:25
Yeah, sure. So clear when I met close to 10 years ago, now. And we just met through mutual friends. Cleo used to play pretty high level AFL. And I joined the local club just wanting to play a sport. And I think maybe I played like one or two games before realizing it wasn't really for me. But so we met through that. We had a lot of mutual friends. And yeah, we just sort of, like kind of fell into a relationship. Like it wasn't. We didn't really date or anything like that. We just were spending lots of time together. And yeah, it just it was just right. So for some context, Claire was the first female that I ever dated. And, yeah, that was that was pretty much how we met.
Fiona Weaver 04:28
Did so did you know that you were attracted to women until you met her? No,
Liv 04:32
no, not at all. And to be quite honest, probably still wouldn't say that I am attracted to women. But I'm attracted to Claire, obviously, because I married her and yeah, you'd want to be but yeah, that was that was our sort of little love story. Yeah. And then,
Fiona Weaver 04:54
so when did you get married?
Liv 04:57
We got married. In 2019, so we got engaged in 2017, which was, I think, three years after we started dating, and then married two years later. And then pretty much as soon as we got married, we started looking into the process of having kids because I have always wanted kids. And like, to the point where when people used to ask me what I wanted to do, when I grew up, I would say, I want to be a mom. Like, I just had this deep desire to be a mom. And I knew that for us, it wasn't going to be in any way straightforward. So we started the process quite early into our marriage. And that just sort of looked like making appointments and seeing where we were at with our like blood tests and fertility testing and things like that. And then, so we got married in April 2019. And we started trying in October. Okay.
Fiona Weaver 06:08
And so what does that look like to the naive person such as myself? So when you say that you're making appointments, is that with a fertility specialist?
Liv 06:17
Yeah, so we, we booked an appointment with our GP first and we said, hey, we want to have a baby, we need a referral. And so we had already looked into fertility specialists that was sort of near us that sort of aligned with our values. And so we got the referral, and we had our first appointment. And so there are a few options for same sex couples in terms of fertility treatment. So it doesn't have to be just IVF, which I think is what most people probably think of when they think of fertility treatment. So because we are deemed as socially infertile, which I guess, just means that we're only infertile by virtue of the fact that we, the two of us together cannot make a baby biologically impossible. But physically, well, we're well, there's nothing actually wrong with our fertility, in like a physiological sense. So we decided that I would be the one to carry. And that's probably clear, just really doesn't have any desire to, to carry a baby. Whereas again, I really did. So and I'm a little bit older than Clio. So it made sense, at least the first pregnancy for me to carry. So we decided that we would try IUI, which is the shortened version of intrauterine insemination, and it's a bit less complicated than IVF. It's less money. You don't have to use fertility drugs to to do a cycle of IUI. And it's just cycle tracking. Right from the start. You have your ultrasounds and your Bloods and all of that. And then they just time a procedure where they for want of a better term, it's what people joke about the turkey baster. Yeah. Yeah. So and they just time that right to your ovulation. So they do that through your blood tests and, and your ultrasounds. And so our first try, we wanted to try with no medications. And so we did that. And that was unsuccessful. Just a little bit heartbreaking, but I think the statistics are like 30% chance, which is it's pretty low. But I also think that it's quite similar to just falling pregnant the old fashioned way. So we decided that we would try two more times. And if that wasn't working for us, then we would look into IVF. So the next time we used some medication, which was just, I think, a week of hormone injections for me, and then an ovulation trigger shot the night before the procedure. And yeah, we fell pregnant with Patrick on the second try saying
Fiona Weaver 09:33
and is this so this is obviously with a sperm donor? Yes. Yeah. So how does that work? Yeah, as in, I imagine it's not like the movies where you have a folder that you go through of pictures of men and then how much they've achieved. Not exactly,
Liv 09:50
but not far off. We actually made a really fun thing of it. We made ourselves some cocktails. was and sat down in front of the laptop, you get access to a database of pretty much what you just described as a folder, but it's, it's on the computer, it's a little bit more high tech than that. And so we made ourselves some cocktails. And this was after our first appointment. So I think it was probably around August of 2019. And yeah, just had a little look through and the information that you get is a, you get a, like a childhood picture of the donor. And okay, yeah, and then just like lots of information, medical history, family medical history, we got the donor had actually written a letter about why he had chosen to be a donor, because in Australia that donors don't get paid. So it's really just, like, altruistic, I guess, if if you could call doing that. altruistic. But yeah, we wanted to choose a donor that was, I guess, similar in certain traits to Clio. Okay, we were lucky enough that we found one the list of options isn't actually that it's not actually that big.
Fiona Weaver 11:24
Mm hmm. Do you have the opportunity to contact them?
Liv 11:30
No. So they are an anonymous donor. But when the boys turn 18, they will have the option to call the clinic and ask if the donor would like to be contacted. And if the donor agrees, then they can meet or go contact each other or whatever that wants to look like for them. Yeah. Okay.
Fiona Weaver 11:54
And how does that feel for you? Does that feel comfortable for you?
Liv 11:59
Yeah, look, it feels fine for us. We talked a lot about because we do have options within our friendship groups of known donors. And so obviously, that was something that we considered, but for us, it was a real case of not wanting to there to be any sort of confusion over who the parents of our babies were. And just the legalities of that. And I think the fact that that is all handled by the fertility clinic, with the anonymous donor, it just sat a little bit better with us. And, you know, our boys will will grow up knowing that they were conceived with the help of, of a donor. And, yeah, if they want to make contact when they're 18. And if he's happy to go ahead and do that, then I think that that's, you know, this person has helped us with our dream of becoming parents. So I think it would be Yeah, it would be nice.
Fiona Weaver 13:03
Yeah. And how does it feel for Cleo to because your children have your genes and the donor sperm genes? How does that sit with Cleo?
Liv 13:15
Yes. So this is something that probably I worry about more than Cleo does? And I think, for her, it's just sort of that they're just our kids. I don't know that she really thinks much more of it than that. For me, there's a little bit of guilt. And I guess, when people say, Oh, my gosh, they look so much like you and they do both of our kids. My Minimes your older boy, yes, absolutely. He's like, Yeah, me with a different wig on that's what we always say. So that for me, like I get a little bit uncomfortable every now and then like, you know, I love hearing it. And, but I also worry about that, how that makes clear feel. But she has told me that it doesn't, it doesn't bother her. I think maybe down the track. There is an option called reciprocal IVF. Where if we have a third baby, I could carry her egg. So I would essentially be her surrogate and Yeah, and so if we use the same donor, then they biologic biologically I guess there would be our boys, half sibling, but for full sibling, yeah. Because of the way that our family just looks in general, but that that's also an option and we have discussed that too.
Fiona Weaver 14:46
So you use the same sperm donor for both your boys? We did.
Liv 14:50
Yes. Very lucky.
Fiona Weaver 14:53
And how smooth was it having a second?
Liv 14:57
The doctor said to me it that it's almost lucky that I'm not in a straight relationship because I would have several children because it was that easy to fall pregnant the second time. Yeah, it was just the first first attempt. We were very, very lucky.
Fiona Weaver 15:17
Yeah. Okay, awesome. And then how was your How was your pregnancy and birth journey? Were you ever up against any sort of resistance or criticism? Or did you ever feel uncomfortable? Anywhere?
Liv 15:36
I don't think that externally. There was any. Like, nothing stands out to me as any external judgment or anything like that. I think a lot of the the issues that I had and probably still do have is around being pregnant, especially when I was pregnant and holding hands with another woman. And just I guess, worrying that people were looking and going, Hey, what the hell's going on there? But that's definitely more of a me thing. There was nothing that really yeah, like I said, nothing that really stands out as far as other people making comment. Um, my pregnancies were really difficult. Both of them. I had hyperemesis. So undiagnosed in the first pregnancy. And then in the second pregnancy, same thing and different care team. And I was told, Oh, yeah, if you were like this in your first pregnancy to you definitely. Had hyperemesis my first birth was not ideal. But second was just a dream come true. And, yeah, I think a lot of lessons were learned through that first experience. Yeah.
Fiona Weaver 16:55
So how were they different?
Liv 16:57
So my first app, towards the end of my pregnancy with Patrick, I was really I was getting really impatient. And I am, I think, just by nature, an anxious person. And so as I got to my due date, and I didn't do any preparation, because I wanted to keep my head in the sand. And I had this fear around birth. And I just sort of thought, If I don't think about it, and well, yeah, I don't have to, I don't have to think about it. And so at 43, I was induced for physical and mental health reasons. And that birth would resulted in a forceps delivery, and just a lot of pelvic floor damage, and really bad baby blues around sort of day five, just requiring a one night readmission to hospital trouble feeding. In postpartum, it was a bit of a shitshow, really. So one of my prerequisites to falling pregnant again, was that I said, during this pregnancy, I really just want to be so prepared for this birth, like I started preparing, like the day that we found out I was pregnant with Charlie, we booked in to do a hypno birthing course, was the absolute it was the absolute best thing that we did. And his he was born on his due date, just a completely physiological birth. I was discharged five hours after he was born. And it was just the most beautiful thing and and I believe that it's because we prepared so much for that. And just I think I like to trust myself a little bit more. Hmm.
Fiona Weaver 18:56
Sounds like quite a healing experience.
Liv 18:58
Oh, absolutely.
Fiona Weaver 19:00
Yeah. Do you guys want to have any more kids? Yeah, you do.
Liv 19:04
I keep telling Cleo, I want five because I think if I tell her I want five maybe she'll meet me in the middle at three. And she'll think she got a good deal.
Fiona Weaver 19:13
That she happy with two.
Liv 19:15
I think she sort of ebbs and flows. Some days. She's like, Yeah, this is great. We can have another one. Easy. And then other days. She's like, what that is? Yeah. Oh, hang on. We're definitely not
Fiona Weaver 19:28
we can all relate to that. Mm hmm. Yeah. So tell me about your working slash parenting situation. How do you guys like are you the primary caregiver?
Liv 19:39
I am. Yes. So I have taken maternity leave with both our kids. I think the decision for that looked like a lot of a few different factors. And one was obviously that I was the birth parent and I sort of need that time to recover breastfeeding So all of those sorts of things. But another was that I do get really good maternity leave through my work. And so yeah, it just made sense for me to take it with both. So Cleo works full time, Monday to Friday, and Patrick's now in daycare three days a week. So I've got those three days with just Charlie, which is nice for our, our bonding as well.
Fiona Weaver 20:28
Absolutely. So how does a same sex partnership look differently in terms of the mental load division of labor in things that we often kind of gender stereotype to? Last night? It's not even just stereotyping? It's research as well that, you know, most of the mental load and things falls on the shoulders of women. When there's two women, what does that look like?
Liv 20:54
Yeah, so this is an interesting one for us. Because looking at my friends who aren't in same sex relationships, I definitely think that I probably as a primary caregiver hold less of the mental load than maybe some of them do as mums. And I have thought about it a fair bit, I don't know if it's necessarily the two women thing, or if it's a personality thing. But Cleo does take on a decent amount of that, I definitely still carry majority, being home with the boys, even, you know, being in charge of their meals, and exclusively breastfeeding, Charlie, all of that there's stuff that can't be taken on by the other parent. But I think what's really interesting is that we seem to still have the same arguments that straight couples have. So it's, like I get it, I get the joke a lot from other people that, oh, gosh, I wish I was married to a woman, it would be so much easier. It's not. There are certain things that do make it easier, you know, women's health issues and things like that when I was postpartum with that, Patrick especially, and I was really struggling physically to take care of myself. Clio was really able to help me out a lot there because she had that empathy from as as a woman. And I even remember a lactation consultant in hospital saying, Oh, wow, I wish every woman had a wife, you're so helpful. But then she still doesn't get up overnight. With that, and like I would say, I can probably count on one hand, the amount of times Claire has gotten up with one of the babies for an overnight wait. Yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily a sex thing or, or just a personality thing.
Fiona Weaver 23:07
Yeah. Or our primary versus secondary?
Liv 23:10
Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Fiona Weaver 23:15
It's interesting to reflect on, isn't it? Yes, yeah. And what do you wish that more people understood? What do you feel like we're missing in terms of like, what would how we talk about it? Oh,
Liv 23:32
yeah. So we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording fee. And I think it never or very rarely comes from a malicious place, when I will often refer to it before I know somebody quite well, I will often refer to Clio as my partner. And there are a few factors to that. And one of them is as a same sex couple. And I think especially when you have children, you're always considering Am I safe in this space to come out? Because that's what it is. Every day. When you're in a same sex relationship, you have to consider if you want to come out that day, it's not coming out isn't just a one time thing. You know, when people say, Oh, what's your coming out story? It's, it's not as simple as that. It's often it you know, at the coffee shop, you bump into another man at the park. There are multiple times in in a day where you have to consider if you want to let that person into this part of your life. And so when I refer to clear as my partner, and then another person or the person who I'm talking to says, Oh yeah, blah blah, your husband That puts it onto me to have to make a choice of whether or not I'm going to then correct them, which could be the right thing to do. And it could also, I guess, without wanting to go too much into like the, I don't want to get too deep with this, but go deep. It's, yeah, I have to consider whether I'm safe to do that. And yeah, is this person going to judge me? Yeah, it's, I think that's probably so. So I guess, when you're in a conversation with somebody, and they're referring to their partner as their partner, maybe not making that assumption, and it is just like, it's just a unconscious bias, like we all do it, I probably do it even being in a same sex relationship, myself, but maybe mirroring their language. So then when you're conversing back with them, you can say, Oh, your partner, blah, blah. And then when they're ready. They might say, my wife, or she. But it might just take them some time rather than sort of being forced into that decision making, if that makes sense.
Fiona Weaver 26:38
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. And I imagine for you, it would be about whether you feel like being in an uncomfortable situation as well, not even just to feel judged. But I imagine that some people would make that awkward about them, and their discomfort of saying the wrong thing. And then you're holding space for their feelings.
Liv 26:59
Yeah. Yeah. You want to do it in a way that's respectful of the fact that they didn't mean to do that. But also, us being and I think Claire, and I have a real privilege in the fact that we are straight passing. So to look at you probably like if we're out, even together, we often get asked if we're sisters, or whose mom and whose auntie. And so whether or not it is up to us to to be more visible. For those people who don't have the choice in that situation? Or whether or not they want to come out or they just look like people would just know by looking at them. That makes sense.
Fiona Weaver 27:55
Do you do you find it difficult sometimes to I wonder if there's any push and pull between wanting to advocate and speak up versus what you can be bothered dealing with?
Liv 28:10
Yeah, it can be exhausting sometimes. And that's you don't have to be an advocate all the time. Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Like, I think it probably falls on allies, I guess, in a way to, to do some of that work for us. But then, like I said, we're sort of in the middle where we actually have a choice as to whether or not we want to come out every day. And so as people who have that choice, maybe it's not as exhausting for us as it would be. For somebody who doesn't. So yeah, it it can be it can be exhausting. Emotionally. It's, yeah. And then, like, clearer cleaner, and I both do it every now and then if we know that we're never going to see someone again. And we just can't be bothered. And they say, whose mom or whatever. Clear we packed mum and I'll be Charlie's mum. lag. It's not worth sometimes it's just not worth going into it.
Fiona Weaver 29:19
Yeah, yeah. Like you said with someone you're not gonna see again. Yeah. Are you sorry. Are you in Clio different in how you? Were asking? Like, even in the way that you are allies or not always allies is one of you like it. How do you both play that part? Yeah, I'm not asking the question properly. But
Liv 29:49
no, I understand what you mean. I think clearer is more just in general, more aggressive as far as Putting a point. But she's also probably. I'm more of an extrovert. So I'm probably the one who will have the conversation. More than maybe Cleo would. If that? Yeah. But no, I think we're, we're probably pretty on the same page. And it is something that we talk about fairly often. And I also think that as the biological mum, a lot of the time when I'm asked or when we're asked who's Mom, I'll say we both are. Because, yeah, I do worry about how Clio must feel being asked that question.
Fiona Weaver 30:50
Yeah, yeah. You're always mindful. Yeah. And what do your kids call you guys?
Liv 30:56
Yeah, so I'm mummy. And Claire is my mum.
Fiona Weaver 31:00
Cute. Mama.
Liv 31:03
Yeah, yeah, it started as mama but now it's my mum. My mum.
Fiona Weaver 31:07
That's very cute. Or
Liv 31:10
Patrick has actually just started calling us by our first names, which is who we are and who we like Cleo.
Fiona Weaver 31:19
My son he is seven and he is just bloody cheeky. He started calling me a little Fifi. Like when he's not happy with something. I say he shakes his finger. He's like little Fifi. noxee not happy with that. That is so cute. He is so freakin cheeky. It drives me crazy, but then also love him
Liv 31:40
a lot of work. Yeah, they little personalities.
Fiona Weaver 31:43
I know. So funny. But then when we're around other people who can judge how cheeky he is. I want to squash it. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like I'm in charge. Actually. Yeah. Yes. Just wagging his finger at me. Well, when we're little Fifi. Too cute. So how do you feel as your kids grow up? Do you have any worries or any, you know, messages that you want to share with them as they grow? Or how do you sort of look to the future? You feel? Do you feel safe and comfortable and confident?
Liv 32:20
Yeah, look, I think I, I probably have a bit of an avoidant personality. And I try not to think too much about that. But as a parent, you do just worry. You worry about everything, hey, and it sort of adds an extra layer of complexity to that, because starting at school, and you know, at daycare, the the educators are fantastic. They know that Patrick's got to mums. All the kids know Patrick's got to mums are your Patrick's mummy, your Patrick's mama. But as kids get older, they have I don't want to say they become cruel because they don't but but there is that element of following a crowd or if their parents say something, they take it on and and I worry about our kids, hearing things, or hearing that their family isn't normal. That's definitely something that plays on my mind. But I hope that at the crux of everything that my kids know, or that our kids know, is that they're so loved. And that, really, they have us they've got their extended family, they have a lot of uncles and they've got grandparents and and our friends or our extended family. I really hope that that is stronger than any adversity that they come up against for being in a family that maybe doesn't look like what people typically would see. But I also think that by clear, and I'm making sure that we are visible and that we do have conversations like this. Maybe by the time they start school, it's not going to be such a big deal. And you know, maybe every now and then a kid might say something and they'll just go Oh, yeah, okay, I heard it before. But yes, it definitely does play on my mind. Yeah.
Fiona Weaver 34:47
I think that I think that we've definitely come a long way, in normalizing families in all shapes and sizes. And I imagine that you know, as Most parents feel worried about their kids as they grow and what adversities they will face them. You know, but like you said that they did they just need a safe place to come home to. And then the rest is kind of probably resilience building, because they've got the support to work through that stuff.
Liv 35:19
Yeah. Yeah. And I also think that I hope that we can always be a space where they feel and their friends and peers feel that they can ask questions, like, where did I come from, and we're never going to, you know, make up a story about the stork dropping them at the front door, our kids will grow up knowing that they were conceived with the help of a donor. And that that means that they are just as if not maybe more wanted, and some other babies that might, that might be born. Yeah. And I think also just opening up that to other parents and on podcasts like yours, and just saying, Hey, if you have a question that you want to ask us, just ask in, be respectful in the way that you ask it should have maybe some humor in it. Like, we love a little joke as much as the next person. But, you know, there are respectful ways of asking questions. And I think if people wouldn't feel comfortable asking a straight couple that then maybe consider whether it's appropriate to ask us but more so than that. framing it in a way that like Claire gets it all the time. Oh, you're having a baby with your wife? How's that work? Like, come on. And Claire always makes the joke. Take us out for a drink first lead into it. Give us a little bit of like, you know, it's it's okay to ask how it works. But let there be like a little bit of a build up to that. Curiosity. Okay. Yeah, the curiosity is fine, but respectable curiosity.
Fiona Weaver 37:18
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. And what do you what do you hope that parents teach their kids? Like in order for all of our kids to go to school together? Yeah. And be respectful of other people's families. What are we teaching them?
Liv 37:36
Yeah, just that. people's families look, like all different things. Some people have a mommy and a daddy, some some people have just a daddy. Some people have two mommies. Some people have grandparents. Some people have carers just teach them that. Not every family looks like yours. And that even is like with us. We say to Patrick all the time, because he comes home and he goes, Oh, this is the he'll be playing with toys. And he'll go this is the daddy one. And this is the mummy one. Oh, okay. We don't say, oh, no, that's a that one's a mummy. And that one's a mum. No, there are different types of families. And yeah, I think if everybody just starts with that, and yeah, like you said, as long as they whatever their family looks like, as long as they're loved, and they've got a safe place. Or person.
Fiona Weaver 38:41
Yeah. All about, isn't it? Yeah. I'm circling back to the IUI stuff, sperm donor stuff. How much does something like that cost? If you're happy to share that I just imagine that there'll be people listening who might be in a similar situation and who want to know, like the practicalities?
Liv 39:00
Yeah, definitely. So I can't so some of it you do get back on Medicare. And it's not that I don't think it's an actual procedure because again, it's deemed as social infertility. I think all up with medications and because you have to purchase the sperm like the donor semen. I would say probably around $800 a cycle. So it is significantly less expensive. Oh, maybe 1200. It's significantly less expensive than IVF. But it's not an option for everybody. And yeah, like I said, we we did get very lucky. But yeah, I think probably around 1200 a cycle. Okay.
Fiona Weaver 39:53
Yeah, and then plus any appointments and yeah, tests and things. Yes. Yeah,
Liv 39:59
that's not too bad. No, it's pretty good. Yeah, considering all of the other things, I guess that the stresses that come with infertility and in whatever form it is, financial stress is is not another one that you really want to add on to that. So it was, yeah, so we're very aware of how lucky we we got being able to do it that way.
Fiona Weaver 40:25
Okay, is there anything that you want to share? Or say before we finish up today? No, I
Liv 40:33
don't think so. Um,
40:36
I feel very
Liv 40:37
privileged to have been able to have this chat with you fee. And I hope that if somebody's listening, who is part of a family that maybe looks like ours, and hasn't been sure how to articulate things, or hasn't felt like they belong in the big family world or parenting world, I hope that this has maybe helped them or I hope that if somebody had questions about how to interact with, I don't know, maybe there's a kid at your kid's daycare or school that has a same sex parents. And yeah, you haven't been sure how to sort of approach them or if you can about any questions that you might have that. Yeah, I hope this has helped a bit.
Fiona Weaver 41:23
Yeah, it's been awesome. Would you be happy to do a q&a or something on my Instagram? Would you love that? And you have your own podcast, too?
Liv 41:33
I do. Yes. Yes. So I have a podcast called The after birth podcast. And I do that with my co host jazz. And it is just about the postpartum experience just sharing lots of different stories and expert advice on people's postpartum journeys, because we found that there's a lot of podcasts and information available about birth and pregnancy. But like I know, for me, my postpartum really just effed me sideways. And I love being able to hold space for people's stories and learn all about the weird and wonderful things that happen in those years after after giving birth.
Fiona Weaver 42:28
That's awesome. Well, I will link it in the show notes here and maybe we'll organize a day when this was released to hop onto my Instagram and people can ask their unfiltered. Respectfully curious questions to you. That'd be groovy. I'd love that. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time today live.
Liv 42:47
Thank you.
Fiona Weaver 42:49
See you in the membership.
Liv 42:50
Thanks so much fee.
Fiona Weaver 42:54
I was about to leave you
