Emma Morris, Clinical Nutritionist on Postnatal Depletion and advocating for our health
Today we chat with Emma Morris, Clinical Nutritionist about Postnatal depletion and the impact it can have on our wellbeing as mothers.
Emma is mama to one, a Clinical Nutritionist and Co-founder and Director of Maia Mothers Collective, a holistic clinic for mums and babies in Brisbane. She is passionate about supporting women in all aspects of childbearing including preparing for birth, maintaining a healthy pregnancy and assisting women with postpartum depletion and mental health issues such as postpartum depression and/or anxiety.
You can find Emma here: https://www.maiamothers.com.au/our-team Insta @maiamothers.collective @emmamorris_nutrition
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:09
Hello love and welcome to the Manage chatters podcast. If you're keen to ditch all of the parenting shoulds and want to uncomplicate sleep and parenting, you are in the right place, through honest conversations with experts and each other, we will help you to cut through all of the noise and to love the heck out of your imperfect and authentic parenting. I'm Fiona, a social worker by trade. Now supporting families with sleep and parenting through my business mama matters. I'm passionate about parenting psychology, biologically normal infants sleep and infant mental health and attachment. I'm also a parent and I am on a mission to normalize the shitshow that can be parenthood. I know that right now you might be trapped under a sleeping baby. Or maybe you've got your headphones in to soften the blue of the afternoon witching hour, wherever and whoever you are. I want you to know that you belong here. Now, let's have a chat Hello, my love's I hope you're well I have a chat today with my friend Emma Morris, who is a clinical nutritionist and co founder and director of my mother's collective, which is a beautiful space for mothers in Brisbane. Emma is passionate about supporting women in all aspects of childbearing including preparing for birth, maintaining a healthy pregnancy and assisting women with postpartum depression and mental health issues such as postpartum depression and or anxiety. And today, Emma and I are chatting about the prevalence of postnatal depression, and how we can spot it and what we can do to nurture ourselves. So I hope you guys enjoy this chat. I am focusing on newborns over on Instagram this week, I have my newborn sleep guide coming out next week, and I am launching with a workshop as well. So if you have a little baby or you are going to have a little baby, then you are going to want to be following along. So let me know how you find this chat. If there is anything that stands out or anything that resonates, please let us know. And I will put in the show notes where you can contact me if you would like for support or information. Hello, and welcome to the party, my love.
Emma Morris 02:17
Thank you V for having me.
Fiona Weaver 02:20
I'm very excited to speak with you. I always start with that I need to be less excited, but I'm just an excitable person. And I just am very happy about anybody I get to speak to on here.
Emma Morris 02:30
Anybody who wants to come on No, no. Yeah, I'm
Fiona Weaver 02:33
sorry. I'm like, sorry, not just anyone. You're special. No,
Emma Morris 02:38
I'm very excited to be here. Very excited.
Fiona Weaver 02:42
So we connected a little while ago when I was on your podcast and you have a beautiful mums and babies clinic in Brisbane. It's called. I've only just learned this. I've been calling it my mother's this whole time it is named mother. It's my mother's. Ah, sorry, I've been calling it my mother's. Now. My mother's.
Emma Morris 03:04
Look, it's it's really up to interpretation because it's m Ay ay ay ay ay. Which is really Maya, but we call it mayor because that's how we want to call it and so it's really we don't we don't get offended. Yeah. Okay to do what you want. Yeah, that's it. But the Greg, of that is like Mueller, and yet it's very mother centric. So
Fiona Weaver 03:25
all right. So introduce yourself, tell us who you are, where you're from, who's in your family and all about the work that you do.
Emma Morris 03:32
Cool. So yes, my name is Emma. I am a wife and a mother. Probably first. I've always Oh, start with that. I'm a nutritionist. But I'm, I'm a wife. I'm a person. I'm a wife. I'm a mother, to my daughter, elke, who is nearly 17 months. And I also have two cats and two chickens. We have to include them in the Yes, yep. Yep. And we live in Brisbane. But yeah, I'm a nutritionist. And I have been for the past probably, or six, six years. But prior to that, I've done a degree in psychology. So I've got that kind of background. And I was also a personal trainer for a good five years there as well. So I then did study in nutrition, and now I've landed in the clinical nutrition space mainly. And as you mentioned, we've got I've got my own clinic that I opened with my friend Monique, who is also a mother. And yeah, it's we've only been open for less than a year for maybe 10 months now. But as you said, like our clinic really it's a multi modality women's health clinic and we strive to specialize in perinatal health so that whole from preconception right through to pregnancy and then postpartum and Beyond I do see clients who are not in that space as well, because I previously practiced more in the gut and mental health space when it comes to nutrition. So I've got a lot of clients just I'm seeing in that realm as well, who are, you know, who I've been seen for a few years now. But yeah, I really, really enjoy what I do. And yeah, I'm, I still have to pinch myself daily that I own a business, the business that I own, because it is, honestly, it's a lot of hard work, obviously running, opening and running a business. But it is just, yeah, it's my passion. So it's kind of easy in that sense as well. Yeah. That's an interesting. Yeah, both. So I always knew that I'd work with others. In this space, I guess, with my mental health background, like I've done postgraduate study in mental health when it comes to like mental health and nutrition and the links there. So I always knew, I'd end up in the like, maternal mental health space. And that's where this postpartum depletion chat will come in, as well, we'll find out. But yeah, I always knew I wanted to work with mothers, but I wanted to be a mother myself, before I really dived into that space. I wanted to be able to get across from a mother, and actually know what it felt like to be a mother. Because I just felt, I don't know, in authentic or I just felt like I couldn't understand the depths of what would experience until I'd been there myself, even though every experience is different. So I knew that, but I never thought I would open a clinic. Like, I have never thought that was really going to be the case that came to me in my postpartum season. And it kind of came to me out of the blue. Yeah, it's, it's pretty wild, how it all occurred. But all of a sudden, like Monday, how can I just do it, and it was this idea that I, I couldn't let go of, and I just said to my husband one day, like, I need to open a space for mothers, like for the mother, because there is nothing out there. Like it. And you know, I want to open a space where the mother can be held, and she can walk into our doors. And like she can feel, you know, energetically she feels nurtured. And she you know, it smells beautiful. And it looks as you know, obviously, look looks beautiful. And she can just feel like she can take over her nervous system can just relax for a second. And that was what I wanted mothers to feel. And obviously, we do a lot of telehealth as well, so that I get that. But, you know, I just wanted a space where mothers could actually feel held and supported and heard, really.
Fiona Weaver 08:00
I love that so much. What when you say that it was just out of the blue? Did you just wake up one day and say this is what needs to happen? And then you just like, how do you just make that happen?
Emma Morris 08:10
Yeah. I don't even know how it happened. Like, I don't know, I had a Yeah, I had a feeling that I was always going to go back to private practice, because I absolutely love working one on one. And I think I will always be a clinician at heart because I yeah, I just love I adore the work that I do. But I thought I always said to my old boss, like, I would go back to private practice with her in her clinic. And I absolutely loved it. Like I had no issues. But then when I had LP, I just was drawn to this space. And I just in my heart of hearts just knew that I had to be here. And I knew that I just had to take this leap, but I can't quite explain it in words. But it honestly was I always say I'm really worried. But it's like I had a download, like almost had this like, Vision one day just like come into my brain. And as soon as I unlocked it with this imaginary key, the whole business plan flowed out. I could picture it exactly. I knew exactly who and what I wanted to offer, and what practitioners and what modalities and like it was just it was honestly insane. I've never experienced anything like it. And of course at the start, I was like, hang on a sec, you need to sit with this for a little bit because is it just a crazy idea. But the more I did sit with it and really started to lay up like do I want to do this because if I do, it's going to be really hard. I know that it's also going to be really rewarding, but it's going to take a lot out of you and you know, I've already suffered from burnout in the past so I was like, you know, this potentially will burn you out again. You know, with everything that I I'm kind of like 100% or nothing type of person. But um yeah, I just I don't know, I just kept being pulled back and then I thought I'll just put the feelers out and just see like start thinking about names and just start thinking about spaces and we with my husband and I like looked around for a bit and we act Yeah, the way that we found this space that we're in like it just everything just flowed really easily. And that was to me a sign that I was on the right track. And yeah, when mon and I looked back now, it's almost like how did we do that? Because LP was, like five months, I think when we first initiated like, the business process, and Archie, her son was six months, because they're about five weeks apart. And I'm like, how? How did I do that? I don't know. It sounds incredibly crazy. But I don't know. We just it was like, we just thing. Yeah, we were just doing it since fire. I don't know. It's a wild story. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad. Hold on. One is I'm glad that we did it.
Fiona Weaver 10:43
So what was your postpartum experience? Like or everything leading up to that point? And
Emma Morris 10:47
did you notice that there was something missing in the way that moms and babies are supported? Is that something that you felt firsthand that you knew what needed to be different? Or walk me through that? So my own postpartum experience? I would like? And I like to say I thrived through it. And I don't, I used to hate saying that. Because not many women do. And I used to, like, think like, I'm I don't say that because, you know, for the women who are having really hard time, like, you don't want to be in their face saying that. But I think when I think about it, that didn't happen by coincidence. Obviously, I know a lot about the biochemistry and the nutritional side of what happens during pregnancy and postpartum. And I was just so on top of that side of things. And it started for me a long time before I even got pregnant. Like, I'm a big believer in before getting pregnant if you can, if you've got the time and the space and, you know, the access to you know, try and optimize everything. So that because that honestly, when you come out the other side, it really does set you up quite well. But my own experience was yeah, it was quite good. Like I actually felt amazing. I and you know, it's funny because my whole interest and fascination and with mental health started because I used to suffer really bad depression and anxiety. But my I've got a long standing history and my family have mental health issues, both depression and anxiety, both sides. And then you know, growing up, I had really deep dark depressive episodes, and I was medicated. And yeah, I've I've been really to hell and back with my mental health. And so I was really conscious of keeping that in mind when I knew postpartum how much of a change it is hormonally, and how much I could potentially be affected mentally by all those changes that are happening. So I guess I was just very proactive in trying to put everything in place that I could and that I could control. Prior to going through my postpartum and I know my family were quite worried they never really told me but I know that they were worried about my mental health, postpartum just because of my previous, my previous depression. Having said that, I haven't had a depressive episode in a very long time now, because I've done a lot of work with a lot of different modalities and things and but um, yes, I guess I went into it like that. So I was very, very proactive and new new.
Fiona Weaver 13:26
Wait, sorry. Were you worried?
Emma Morris 13:30
Not? Oh, no, not really. Not too worried. I kind of I mean, yes, there was an unknown, but I was also very, I don't know, like I had, I just knew I was on top of everything and not that that can always guarantee that you'll be okay, because of course, there are many, many things that come into play when it comes to mental health. It's not, obviously, it's not just about you know, what your nutrient status is. However, I think it's also because I had such I've had a good a good few years now without any issues at all. So I guess it wasn't like I was battling with my mental health on and off prior to becoming pregnant. Like that was years and years ago now. I guess I've been so well for so long that I probably didn't, but I knew that my family were less confident than I was.
Fiona Weaver 14:21
Yeah, yeah. It's hard as well, isn't it? Because it's, it's there's so much awareness about it in the media and the mainstream media. But for some people, they would come to me and say, I'm so nervous about getting postnatal depression with no history or no significant risk factors, but because it's out there, it's they and often it does just pop up it rears its ugly head, but there's some fear about just no just getting
Emma Morris 14:50
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, I think there's a lot that goes into that and obviously like yeah, nutrients are at play a big role, but obviously then, you know, Sleep deprivation, the experience you had, you know, your system like it's there's so many factors there. So I always say to my clients who come to me with that, like I get some clients who come to me in pregnancy saying like, I want to try and set myself up for a positive like, positive postpartum experience and I am worried about depression or I've had clients who've had previous pregnancies and postpartum experiences where they have suffered from postnatal depression, postnatal anxiety and they say, like, I want to do it differently this time, and I help them do that. And it is like it has helped a lot. So yeah, I totally understand that. But I guess also going back to your other question about why did I that's like, Why did I want to open this clinic it's because I was going through this period of postpartum period being so like loving it, and I just around me I went to mothers groups and I was like, surrounded a lot by mothers who were going through similar things. And I could just see how everyone needed so much support, I guess, and I just thought like, there was nothing out there. There's nothing out there like obviously. Yeah, I don't know that access is limited, but also there was just not the service where women could come like my mother's come in and just be held and be listened to and you know, be be looked after. So I guess that's where it kind of I just through that experience and knowing like the statistics around postnatal depression, anxiety and depletion, like I knew that it was just honestly, is this epidemic that's happening at the moment so
Fiona Weaver 16:33
so this is your this is your area of speciality isn't it? postnatal depression, so I would love to pick your brain about it. So when you say it's an epidemic, what does that what does that look like? What what is postnatal depression? How do we know about it? What do we do about it?
Emma Morris 16:49
So I guess the term post, the term postnatal depression was coined by a GP called Dr. Oscar Cerelac. It's quite a, I guess, newish term. I do believe it's probably been going on for a little bit now. But it's really, really rampant, as I just said before. So I guess in terms of like, what is it what is personnel depletion? It's, it's not a blood test that you can go out and do and be like, Oh, yes, I have personnel depletion, like I have the personnel depletion positive tests, like it's, it's unfortunately, not as easy as that to recognize. But essentially, it's like a syndrome or a collection of symptoms, which is characterized by lower hormonal function, tied in with what we call HPA Axis impaired HPA axis, feedback, I guess. And what that means is that essentially, you've got hormonal fluctuations happening from the birth and from breastfeeding, you've got you've got estrogen and progesterone, really, really lowering quite quickly post birth, and you've got these oxytocin and you've got prolactin, these other hormones replacing them, you know, whilst establishing breastfeeding. But then after that, there's a lot of things that the body is trying to get back into a rhythm, for example, the thyroid and your nutrient stores. And I guess it's just your other women are at this. They're really stretched thin after conceiving, growing and birthing, and then feeding if they're, if they're breastfeeding a baby. So I guess it's this combination of hormonal, and like hormonal and nutrient deficiencies, really. So which leads to this, these symptoms, and I mean, usually we would if they don't correct them by correct themselves by the end of that fourth trimester. So by the end of that 12 week period, then that's really where we would term, okay, you've got this post postpartum depletion picture going on. So I really don't want people to think like, oh, it's going to happen just like in the first six weeks, because that's not actually what happens. It's, it's more of something that happens in the month and years post birth. And I think that's not what he's talked about. So the symptoms, which I'll get into in a second about the symptoms can be ongoing for years and years and years post birth so easily what else Dr. Oscar Cerelac says is up to seven years is birth. But I actually see in clinic women who have never recovered from childbirth 2030 years down the track. And even those who are going through menopause. They were never the same sense. They their bodies were not never replenished and their hormones were never rebalanced know, that they, I guess, should have been because of that because of huge amounts of of differing differing reasons. But so it's a long term thing, and I think that's what a lot of people don't understand. Um, terms of the symptoms, so what clean and the thing is, it's really hard because there's quite an overlap, right between symptoms of post natal postpartum depletion, and I guess having a new baby So the big one is t. So you know, but also in that first year, as you would know, the sleep deprivation and you know, even ongoing years, but the sleep deprivation is huge, I think it's like 700 hours of sleep lost in that first year or something, something that extent. So that obviously is a big thing. But it's fatigue is one of them. cognitive symptoms is another really big red flag. So problems memory, problems with brain fog, and I'm able to, you know, think of the words that you're trying to say either there's that bit of a fogginess that's happening in pain, concentrating, has only been a huge issue there as well. And then there's like the mental health side of things too. So a lot of like, hyper vigilance, a lot of worry anxiety, at you know, that self doubt, and that heightened inner critic. Also, boys and sound sensitivity can be another big one. And digestive issues too. So you know, digestive issues such as bloating, and even some food sensitivities that might crop up as well. So as you can see, it's a slight collection of symptoms that is quite hard to I guess get, you know, go to your doctrines and Okay, all these symptoms, but they might not necessarily say yeah, you've got postnatal depression. Right? It's quite hard to and I guess it's not really a diagnosis, but it's just like a set. Yes, more of a series of symptoms.
Fiona Weaver 21:36
Yeah, it is. It is tricky, isn't it? Because a lot of those things that you're describing as well is what happens in the changes to our brain when we become mothers as well like this. You know, we might feel foggy somewhere else and forget things because our brain is making space to be hyper vigilant to respond to our new baby. So there's, there's so much crossover there. Isn't that? So? is it sort of that those sorts of symptoms that people would come to you with, alongside bloods alongside nutritional, or, you know, blood screening?
Emma Morris 22:13
Yes, I guess the other thing is that a lot of symptoms are there, they're there because of quite significant, usually nutritional deficiencies. And that's, I guess, another thing that most people don't understand is that there's a lot of nutrients that play a huge role in helping to stabilize these symptoms. And I guess there's, so this thing is society where it's like, oh, you know, I just, I'm a new mom. I've got my brain, I've got brain fog, I've got fatigue, I've got all these things, trouble losing weight, I've got all these issues, and it's just kind of, you know, chalk does normal. Which I actually, I mostly, I disagree with that. It's common, but it's, it's, it should have been normal. So I guess in terms of blood, like, yes, that is a huge thing that I do, it's one of the main things I'll start with, a woman comes to me a few over the last even week that come to mind who are quite, quite bad. So they'll come to me and they'll just say, Look, I just don't feel myself, I feel I can't concentrate, I can't remember anything, my brain is foggy. And I'm just like, not surviving, like, I'm just not feeling myself. Late, or I'm, I can't put on weight. I, I'm really like swinging between depression and anxiety. You know, you just need to have symptoms like that. And so I will, the first thing that I will do is get them to do blood tests. So go to their GP, and get them done, or review the blood, as I've already had done. And I'm a big advocate for getting a real comprehensive list of blood tests done around six weeks postpartum. Around, yeah, around that time, but a lot of women don't get that done at all. And if and if they do, they just get the real basics done. So yeah, that's the first thing I'll do. I'll either send them back to their GP, with a letter explaining what it was like, or sometimes if they have a good relationship with their GP, having a bit of a list, but it is really hard because our system with Medicare is not really set up to accommodate doing, you know, comprehensive tests unless the doctor, you know, really deems them appropriate. So there is a barrier there for sure. Sometimes I will get what we can done through Medicare and through the GP and then the rest we will order privately because I can order bloods privately. That's no issue. It's just the cost barrier, because they're not covered by Medicare. Some women actually don't. Some women just don't care. They just they all have them all privately, because they just you know, they've had a bad experience with GPS before or whatnot and it's totally dependent As your doctor is like, they're beautiful. Very. Yeah, they're standing doctors out there. But then there's equally doctors that are not specialists in this field. And I don't. Yeah, they're just not it's just they're not over all of these nutrients that need to be looked at postpartum, which have been depleted. So it's not you no one's fault.
Fiona Weaver 25:29
Yeah. I remember I went to my GP after I had Knox when I was, I don't know how postpartum I was maybe seven or eight months, but I was struggling. I lost a lot of weight, and was just probably on edge all the time. And I asked for bloods to be done. And he just did the really basic Bloods. And he's like, class just being a mom. And it was the same kind of thing. I was like, No, I feel like there's more to it. But I don't know what I'm looking for, or what I'm asking for?
Emma Morris 26:01
Yeah, it's really quite Yeah, I, if I had $1, for every time that I would be a millionaire. And it's unfortunate, because, you know, again, it's an access issue. But it's also just an issue with women, going to their GP and not getting the appropriate testing done. Or the most comprehensive testing, and then also on the outside of that is the results, which, as a nutritionist, like an tryouts are the same, we've been trained, we've been trained, like, I've done a lot of graduate training in blood pathology as well. So I really look with a fine tooth comb at my current results, and I'm looking for optimal ranges, I'm not looking for the standard reference range, which often is very, very wide. So you know, they could be within reference range, or even high or low on this reference range, or Gonio sub optimal on this reference range, that you get back for pathology company. However, for me, that could be completely out, you know, so the GP might say, oh, yeah, everything's fine. You're within range, and I will same sort of odds and go no, x y Zed out, we need to do something about this. You could be feeling better. Absolutely.
Fiona Weaver 27:19
There's more layers in that, isn't there? Like, don't ask for too much Be a good girl, you know, we could we could take that a whole nother a whole nother way. But we won't, because we don't have enough time today to go there. So what would you be doing for people who come to you who you do think that might have postnatal depression. And the other thing I want to know is why is it so big right now? Why is it such an epidemic? Now? Is it because we know more? Or is it because of our lifestyles? Food? We eat? Everything?
Emma Morris 27:52
No. So you know, at the moment, I think it's happening because the average age of the first of a mother for the first time is 30.9 years currently in a string. So I mean, we're having days later. And that is due to a variety of factors. But it's due, I think, to women working and wanting to, you know, get their career started first, which is so different to how it might have been back in our parents or our grandparents time. You know, the mother or the woman Sorry, I was really just having kids. And that was her main job, right? So it's, it's a societal thing. It's a cultural thing with us working more wanting to establish our careers and then fitting in children when we feel financially able to and feel like it's the time in our career where we can maybe have some time off and keep our position and go back to that position after. So I think that's a big one. But also a big one that I see is a pre depleted state. So something I talked about before going into pregnancy in a previous state. And again, it's another area that I am super duper passionate in, which is preconception care. And I run an online course, a couple of times a year called your tribe zero, which goes into exactly all this stuff. Because I know a lot of women come to me and it's preconception care is not just about you know, taking a prenatal and that's it. Like it's really if you can, if you've got the time, like of course, I acknowledge that sometimes you don't have the time or sometimes you get pregnant, just you haven't done anything and that's totally fine. But if you are consciously thinking about conceiving in the next like 12 months, now's the time to you know, look at coming off contraception and doing some really dark blood testing and getting all your nutrients stalls really where they need to be. So that when you go fantasy your your body by chemically and hormonal II speaking is optimal. And that's then as I said before, that kind of shows up at the end of through pregnancy in you know, a pregnancy from a nutrient status point of view, but then up The other end, it really helps with this postnatal depletion piece. So I guess if we rewind that, that's what I'm saying. And I mean, like, think about, you know, for example, our weddings like we plan our weddings for a year, if not more, we, the amount of hours we spend, you know, on that for one day, yet we don't, a lot of women don't even see the impact that a pregnancy has on the body. Because they just think, okay, I'll just, you know, I'll take a prenatal, I'll have sex, I'll get pregnant, and, you know, good to go. But it's a bit more complex than that. So yeah, I think that's, that's, that's a big thing. I guess the other big thing, I think, why it's happening now is, like, these false, or these, these false ideas around motherhood, and you know, the perfect mother, I know that you thought you'll be on this side of things as well. But just yeah, like Alex make of ourselves as mothers like, not resting appropriately post birth, not taking the time to do the things that you need to to replenish, like, you know, going, getting lots done and looking at your diet and your intake, and all that kind of thing. Like, it's just okay, you've, you've just spat out a baby. Now go back to how you were before and go back to your normal, you know, your previous stuff. And that's actually I always say to my clients, like, You're never going back there, you're never going back to the woman that you were before pre baby, because there are so many changes that have happened, and including Brian upgrades, like, if you went under an FMRI machine, they will be able to tell a woman who has had a baby versus someone who has from, from purely the brain. So it is it is wild that you know, we think, you know, society expects us to go back to the woman Wait, well, we're so different. And you know, in many, many ways, but I always say go forward, like, Let's go forward and, and be the woman that we're meant to be. Instead of wanting to go back to the this old woman, you know, this pre baby self? Woman? 2.0? Yeah, of your own version. Yeah,
Fiona Weaver 32:08
yeah, absolutely. I get asked this all the time. I don't know why people ask me, because it's not within my scope of practice at all. But I'm sure they're asking from lots of different perspectives. But people always want to know what the time between pregnancies should be if, you know, in an ideal world, all of this is very, you know, if conditions allow. But yeah, is it is it better to have some space between pregnancies to get everything back on track, or
Emma Morris 32:38
I think this is really highly individualized, like, I know that, you know, it really does take a good, I would say, good, you know, 18 to 24 months, really, from a nutritional perspective to really rebuild everything. But I mean, you know, it's definitely possible to get pregnant before that. And for some people who are really on top of it, like they could be replenished earlier than that, and feel good and feel vital, and you're ready to go again. Obviously, there's some women, you know, accidentally get pregnant quickly after and that's fine, but it's just like those women, you would really make sure that you're on top of everything. postnatally So, yeah, I don't think there's like a perfect answer there. I think it really depends on the table, but I would say like probably at least a good 18 to 24 months minimum. With some women needing needing way more than that, you know, little time to replenish stores from a real physical point of view, but also like mentally and emotionally to you know, unpack what they need to do in regards to their pregnancy the first time around, or whatever the last pregnancy was, and unpack how their birth when and you know, like it's there's a lot in that right. But yeah, generally from a very biochemical point of view, like Yeah, more more towards that two year mark. I personally land on that.
Fiona Weaver 34:01
If somebody came to you and said that they were that they were going to have a baby, what would you want for them? What would you want in terms of their their care? What would you like, you know, magic wand question? What would you like to see every mother have in their perinatal journey?
Emma Morris 34:18
Yes, this is a hard one because I want a lot of things. But I guess I would, yeah, I would probably want every woman to have access and to someone like like, like a nutritionist or a naturopath who really understands this this season, and to really do a thorough, you know, do a thorough workup of their bloods and anything else that they need to really get them with? Get them on a really good plan in terms of like they're eating. Obviously, food is so important here. It's not just about supplements. It's I have always have a food first approach. So Get really good, you know, balanced dietary approach, but something that's doable for that mother, right, because we've got a million things on our plates like it. So it's really just been foundational about, you know, balanced meals and making sure that eating enough protein and really quick and easy, you know, things that I can grab that are going to be nourishing. And that's what I have to specialize in, in coming up with recipes and ideas for mums for that reason, but you know, someone to go through everything and to make sure that they're feeling vital, and they're feeling good, they're balanced as possible, before conceiving. But then on the other side of things the same, like having that person, they're really like, go above and beyond to really just take care of you and know that if you're under their care, like, they will make sure that they're looking like really proactively looking for, you know, deficiencies, such rear up or, like in pregnancy, I will often keep an eye on a few different nutrients to make sure that like, we're really being proactive about what might be to come on, for example, it was a big one there. So So yeah, I would, if I if it was a perfect world, I would just want everyone to have like individualized care in this space, and to really make sure that they felt good about it as well. I think it like shifting
Fiona Weaver 36:23
the narrative as well that, you know, just because you're a mother doesn't mean that you have to be tired and depleted all the time. Like that's not just part and parcel of motherhood, yes, you are going to have times where you wake more frequently, yes, you're going to feel a little bit tired and worn out sometimes it's worthwhile, you're getting the support, and you deserve the support. that's out there.
Emma Morris 36:43
Yeah. And that's it, like, you know, as I feel yet, culturally, as we have this thing, where we just say, Yeah, you're a mom, you're tired. Like you're a mom, yeah, you just go to the bottom of the list. But it's just like, Well, why can't be put ourselves first in order to fill up our cup. And to be less fatigued and less anxious, and less overwhelmed and less, you know, depressed and feel actually a little bit more vital. So that we can be you know, therefore, for what we need to in motherhood, but, but not even for that for ourselves. Right? Like not even for anyone else. Oh,
Fiona Weaver 37:29
yeah, just because we deserve it. We weren't exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I hear that. So it's, it's a really, I feel like it's it's the shift is happening. Yeah. For sure.
Emma Morris 37:40
I think this shift has happened. But there's a long way to go. Yeah, absolutely. But I will talk about this until I die. Because I am. You know, I see in clinic like it just never ceases to amaze me, like, the changes that I'm able to help women with, like, they come in a totally different person after we've done some work. And it's just, like, I just want to like scream it from the rooftops. It's possible to feel good. Like I was, like, I felt and and I couldn't have opened this business. Like if I was depleted, I couldn't I wouldn't have opened this business. Right. Like when I did. That's No, that's true. It sounds crazy. But like I could, because I was so good. I felt so good.
Fiona Weaver 38:25
And you had a wakeful baby? Yes. At the same time, like it was not like you were getting 12 hours a night? No. And that can feel good alongside being responsive in the night too. Yeah, we
Emma Morris 38:37
had heaps of issues with breastfeeding. Yeah, we had a lot of stuff happening. LD was very wait. I'm still is at 17 months. So you know, there's a lot that happened. And I kind of thought that at the start when I was like, Ah, I'm feeling really good. And but but you know, is my baby just really easy or like, what have I got it just really easy. And then I was like, hang on, no, I've got challenges just like any other mother does, at this point. But I think again, it's just, it was just being so mindful of that and actually just wanted to mention, being on top of that, then, even my postnatal moms, I see a lot of you know, like postnatal moms who were were recovering from birth, and that first fall months of, of after birth, like there's a lot that happens that as well as months and like being on top of getting blood tests every three to six months, even in that first year is what I advise and what I did myself and I actually picked up some thyroid stuff for my assaults that cropped up and I was able to like get on top of it. And I know why. Because I was so busy with the with the clinic and I had to get on top of it and actually resolve it completely. I had antibodies I had my thyroid was actually completely out of whack and I picked up on it. I did all the things that I would normally do from an additional and herbal perspective. And in three, four months after that my father was completely old. No, no, anybody's nothing. And I guess that's just so important for me to walk my talk. Yeah. So you know, it is possible. And I think, Yeah,
Fiona Weaver 40:13
amazing. Well, now I want to come see you. So let us know where we can find you.
Emma Morris 40:18
Well, I've got Instagram. So my personal Instagrams, MMRS, underscore nutrition. But since opening the business I don't do I don't do a lot on that in terms of posting, I just do stories of usually just my daughter. And she's got a really fussy phase as eating at the moment. So I'm, I'm documenting that and I'm just documenting the things the funny thing she does, she's just really funny age where she does random stuff, and we just laugh every, every second day. So that's what I'm doing. But I do a lot more I write a lot more educational pieces on our on our business, Instagram. So my mother's dot Collective is our Intagram there. So yeah, I'm hanging out in both those locations. And then just our website is made others.com delay you so you can find out all about what we offer and you know, consults and all that other practitioners and modalities as well. They've got a heap. So who
Fiona Weaver 41:15
have you got there and whereabouts is your physical space?
Emma Morris 41:19
So our clinic is in Ascot in Brisbane. So just just north, but yeah, we do offer telehealth, honestly, Australia and worldwide. We've got we've got overseas clients as well, but we offer nutrition. We've got another nutritionist Nicola who does like infant soft, so she does a lot of like infant nutrition as well as mother stuff. We've got a naturopath we've got a homeopath who's amazing. We've got an acupuncturist, massage therapists, and a counselor and a psychologist.
Fiona Weaver 41:51
You should be so proud. I'm incredible offering well thank you so much for being here today. And it's been so lovely to have you thank you so much for having me. pleasures all mine. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to mama chatters if you enjoyed this episode, let's continue the conversation on Instagram at MAMA matters.au Be sure to share this app with your family and friends. And don't forget if you liked it, please leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again and I will see you next time.
