P1: Health anxiety, OCD and Panic Attacks: Fiona and husband Ross' raw chat about living with (and living with someone with) health anxiety
This is a super raw, unedited and informal chat over a few wines between Fiona and husband Ross. We chat about Ross' history with health anxiety and answer some questions from the Instagram community. Frequent hospital and doctor visits, body checking, and panic attacks - no stone is left unturned! This is Part 1 of a two part series - we can talk. Part 2 will be released later this week. If you would like to reach out, please do. Language warning - few F-bombs so please be mindful around little people!
Hey Mama, I have a Sleep Guide for you! For birth to 18 months, this guide is steeped in evidence and laced with compassion. And you can download the first chapter absolutely free HERE.
Are we Insta pals? If not, why not? Come and hang out at @mamamatters.au!
As always, thanks for being here- if you enjoy this poddy I would LOVE if you could give a rating and a review. It means the world to me.
xx
TRANSCRIPT
Fiona Weaver 00:09
Hello love and welcome to the Manage chatters podcast. If you're keen to ditch all of the parenting shoulds and want to uncomplicate sleep and parenting, you are in the right place, through honest conversations with experts and each other, we will help you to cut through all of the noise and to love the heck out of your imperfect and authentic parenting. I'm Fiona, a social worker by trade. Now supporting families with sleep and parenting through my business mama matters. I'm passionate about parenting psychology, biologically normal infant sleep and infant mental health and attachment. I'm also a parent, and I am on a mission to normalize the shitshow that can be parenthood. I know that right now you might be trapped under a sleeping baby. Or maybe you've got your headphones in to soften the blue of the afternoon witching hour, wherever and whoever you are, I want you to know that you belong here. Now, let's have a chat.
Fiona Weaver 01:10
Hello, my love. So this is a little bit of a different episode. Today I am having a chat with my lovely husband Ross. Because we have shared on Instagram before about his health anxiety. And it is a very fascinating and interesting topic that is both helpful for us to share. But also helpful to raise awareness about because it can be quite quickly. So it is very informal, very raw, unedited chat, it goes for a long time. This is only part one, we ended up talking and drinking wine for about three hours. So I'm going to divvy it up into two parts. So today we are going into where his health anxiety started what health anxiety is, and just answering a few questions from the Insta community. And then I will put up part two later this week. So like I said, it's super an unedited, the sound isn't very good. You can hear clinking of our wines is there's lots of ANDs and ORs. It's very different to our usual interviews with guests so So consider this a little bonus app for you. If you liked it, let us know if you have any questions. Let us know Ross is happy to answer any questions as well. And just enjoy getting an insight into the way we communicate and how much I talk over my husband, which he really pointed out to me when we were listening back. There's a language warning on this as well. Sometimes when we get a little bit passionate while you might say the F word so be careful around little ears. Enjoy the chat. Hello, my love. Hello. Are you nervous?
Ross 02:54
Just a bit weird to be on my body? A little bit.
Fiona Weaver 02:58
You're lucky people pay a lot of money to be here, really. So we are going to speak today about Ross's health anxiety. Ross is my husband. And he has some pretty gnarly health anxiety that has been with him for a long time. And it's always really fascinating to people outside of it. Even me. I think it's fascinating to even you, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, massively. So we're gonna give you a little bit of insight today, what it is like to live with health anxiety, and what it is like to live with somebody with health anxiety. So we're gonna be answering your questions today. So start from the top, what the f is health anxiety?
Ross 03:45
I guess put simply, it would be. I don't really like the term but like hyper.
Fiona Weaver 03:53
hyper vigilant?
Ross 03:53
No, no. hypochondriasis I think it's called. So like a hypochondriac. Like,
Fiona Weaver 04:00
why don't you why that term?
Ross 04:01
I think I don't want to say is, it's kind of like, it feels more than that. That's why like, it's it's kind of
Fiona Weaver 04:10
lost its meaning a little bit.
Ross 04:12
Yeah, I think so. I think it's always like are you know, you're, you know, you're a hypochondriac or there's not like that, like, especially, that's not how I think about it. Like, in all honesty, it's really an OCD cycle with anxiety attached to it. I don't want to go too much into my story. I don't wanna go too much. And yeah,
Fiona Weaver 04:30
take it from the top. Whether it's that.
Ross 04:34
I don't know if I was like an anxious kid, or like, I don't know, but it really started me when I was like, 24 I think it was.
Fiona Weaver 04:42
What do your parents say about like, Were you an anxious kid?
Ross 04:47
I don't know. I remember like, I don't know. I can't really like pin it to what I was like as a kid, I always thought I was kind of, you know, fall over and dust myself up and go Yeah, I haven't really had that conversation with mom or dad really? Maybe what I should do, though, yeah, they'll
Fiona Weaver 05:06
be here soon.
Ross 05:09
But for me, it's the I think was 2011. Or I had my first like, panic attack over. I was remember, I was a soccer training session, I was run around the field and I felt her ran through like a massive wall of fire. I don't know why I explained like that. But that was the only reason why. And then just my heart, it was my always my heart. Like, for some reason, I just felt like it. I think it skipped B or something like that. And I went, my heart rate went up to something silly. And I just thought anyone who's had a panic attack knows that when you're in a panic attack, he just feels like you're gonna die.
Fiona Weaver 05:44
So interesting to me that you just suddenly had this panic on the field, like, had you been anxious before that I had? Had it been brewing? Or was it just completely out of the blue? Well, I
Ross 05:57
think like, I didn't want my job I was doing at the time. I was Capoeira at the time and didn't like that. I was in a pretty toxic relationship, I think. And I think it was just that I think there was a mountain of things. But at the time, I didn't really feel it. I just felt like I was just doing my normal Tuesday night training at soccer. And then all of a sudden, while I was
Fiona Weaver 06:19
in training, yeah, a lot of it.
Ross 06:25
I saw this picture of a, I always go back to this, this soccer player that like suddenly died on a fit pitch when I was like 13. I saw it in the front paper of the Sun in the UK, crepe paper if anyone wants to read page three. But they're always stuck with me. And I think I don't know, I just always found it like super crazy how that can happen to like an elite, elite athlete. And I'm not an elite athlete by any means. But I don't know if that's a bit of it or not, I don't know. But anyway, it's always been something since then, I've just been had this obsession about my heart, like it's truly an obsession.
Fiona Weaver 07:04
So happened since then.
Ross 07:06
I thought that was Yeah, so I don't want to
Fiona Weaver 07:09
give too much away. But that was over 10 years ago.
Ross 07:13
So I can go through it real quick. So after that time, I got really petrified of having a heart attack. Fainting as well, like I had this massive fear of driving passing out and crashing. So I used to this was listed before us or a psychologist I used to because I was went to the emergency room, they said everything's fine, just get on with it, you probably just got some anxiety, which is really annoying for me because they don't really tell you anything else that goes on low what you should maybe try and do. But I pinch myself on the inside of my arm to almost like keep myself alert or bite my finger really hard. Just to keep myself which now I know is like being present is like a big thing. But it's so can I swear, it's so fucking hard to do it when you're logically not thinking straight. So I did that for a long time. And then finally I went to go see a psychologist. And he then explained it to me. And what I was feeling and all the different side effects you can get or feelings you can get from anxiety, to the point where I was so fascinated, and I ended up going to uni and studying psychology and loved it. I loved every second of it. But I also love to earn money. So I did it I did it for like, I think I did it like two years and then realize to be come a psychologist or a clinical psychologist, there's a lot more money and education involved. And I opted out and started working again. And for a long time I felt really good. Like after six sessions of my psychology felt really good. I was always a little bit anxious here and there, I still have my moments where I'd be like checking my pulse. And
Fiona Weaver 08:55
I remember when I first met you so that would have been when we don't know, eight years, eight years ago, and you were telling me about your history with anxiety. But then you said that you went to see the psychologist six times in your queue and you read the happiness trap by Ross Harris, which is great book. But at that time, your anxiety it was still a little bit there. But I I was attracted to it because it was like your little quirks I could just make it interesting. Like the chicken. Yeah, it was about the chicken. Like you could not eat chicken without dissecting it, shining a light on it. And then the next day or days after asking if the chicken was okay. Yeah. And then also I remember your parents bought you tickets to the Gypsy Kings. Oh, yeah, remember that? And you're about to go and then you got thought you're coming down with gastro suddenly. Yeah. So you almost couldn't go and then you ended up going, but that was kind of your cycle back then. It was about chicken and gut stuff. Yeah. Yeah,
Ross 09:58
I forgot about that. Huh? Excellent.
Fiona Weaver 10:00
So it's always there in some capacity. Yeah,
Ross 10:03
there's always like, I always joke around now like, like I can. Anxiety will attack me in one way and I'll be like, shoot, shoot, shoot and then I'll get used to it and in bang or something else happen what
Fiona Weaver 10:14
do you do that for? Exactly once the heart stuff stops it'll come out somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. Which is the nature of it I guess. Yeah.
Ross 10:22
And then I think like a lot of the time since meeting you it's been really good yeah, like we've had kids and stuff. But my sorry my anxiety has been like it was for a long time it was really good. As in I didn't have as many sensations or feelings and then really bringing it up to now I stopped seeing my psychologist which I think was probably a mistake but I went to where was I? 2020 Interestingly, probably the most like for me personally the most healthiest I've been that year like I lost a little bill way really did a lot of things with my food and was feeling really good exercise and a lot and then I was sitting at home work. And I'm going to tap this out because people will know about it. So my heart did this is when like, bang and and I just like lost it like our former heart was about to stop there's a doctor surgery next door to me. I spoke to the guy JJ who I worked with he was just like, I said, I was like, Dude, you gotta take the next door. I think I'm about to have a heart attack. I don't know what's going on. My heart's like, the force of breathing was fine. Like and then went downstairs. sat in the die think I was messing you saying? Why goodbye, who's Yeah, pretty much because It honestly feels like it's so crazy. Like it's so hard to explain like, again, anyone who's had it, you genuinely believe that you're going to die. And it's crazy, but I'll get more into that in a sec. Because I want to finish your story. Anyway, I went to went to the doctor's surgery, they put blood pressure on me scan my heart, like all this stuff. And then after 10 minutes or 15 minutes, I'd calmed down and came to again, but that was it like
Fiona Weaver 12:30
that was it was that the day that I came though? No.
Ross 12:33
That was the second time No, I came home straightaway after that. I think JJ had called you and said like went home like exhausted I think I had an iron up sleep and after that. Went to like kind of shook it off a little bit. I was I was petrified. But I shook it off and went back to work like two days later, I think. Like, got through it. And then the week after is when I was having lunch outside work. And then all of a sudden I was just like, oh, like I felt like I was on a boat. It was crazy. And then I just thought I was gonna pass out and I was breathing I was I could tell I was hyperventilating I was I was cooling you I was like I can't I can't breathe I can't do this like
Fiona Weaver 13:16
I actually weighing you need to come now. Yeah, yeah,
Ross 13:19
yeah, cuz I thought I'm like again. You just think you've fat. And then I remember going to one of the girls at work you need Can you help me get to the next door because I felt I felt like I was gonna fall over. Got there. Same thing blood pressures through the roof or this or that. Calm down came home. Same thing just exhausted. You can't unify when you turn
Fiona Weaver 13:44
it up. Yeah, sorry. That's that's like I've seen you have a lot of panic attacks. But that one was pretty next level. Yeah. I felt really sad saying that, that it would fit like, because you were shaking, and I could just see so much fear in you. And like making noise every time you sorry.
Ross 14:09
It's my first podcast.
Fiona Weaver 14:11
I was gonna put millions like she's got a bone. What do I do?
Ross 14:15
Yeah. And then from there. From that point, it was just like, all right. Doctors essentially went to the doctor or from the and I got basically I just thought I was having a heart attack or something was going wrong in my heart or I was gonna go into some sort of arrhythmia and have sudden cardiac arrest essentially, is what my biggest fear is, or anything to do with the heart for me is just the biggest thing. So went to the doctor had all these checks, echocardiograms that's like an ultrasound of the heart and EKG which is the little bit the thing you think Um, X rays, blood tests. You name it. I've had it to do with the heart and my heart checks, stress test, emergency X amount of times. Went to emergency because I had my neck cracked by a chiropractor and I heard somewhere like that it can cause stroke. Then all of a sudden my face felt like it was numb. Yeah, his
Fiona Weaver 15:22
stroke was up a bit, too. Yeah, it's like, it's definitely focused on the heart. But you've had everything under the sun. Yeah, it's a brain cancer stroke. Yeah, multiple sclerosis. It's blood clots in your leg. That's a random one that comes up. Sometimes you and you honestly, you say that it feels like, like when you've got hearts up, I feel like my arteries are blocked.
Ross 15:47
Yeah. Like I don't I don't I say this in a way that's like. And again, anyone that's has it, and you're so in tune with every single thing and your body. Like there's times when I really mean this. Like when I'm when I'm really focusing my heart. I can feel like every pump of blood. I have, I can almost feel it in my heart or which is crazy. It's annoyingly cool. To say it that way, but lost my train of thought now where I'm at.
Fiona Weaver 16:24
Yeah, but all those checks, but also what was going on at that time. Do you remember? I reckon there's something pretty significant that happened around the same time.
Ross 16:32
Who was supposed to go to America? Yeah, we're supposed to have our first kind of family holiday thing.
Fiona Weaver 16:37
We're going to go to America for three or four weeks. Yeah, and had flights booked. And then COVID happened.
Ross 16:44
I think as well, like, can't talk about the food side of it real quick, because I think that was something that I'm obsessed with nutrition. I think it's the coolest thing ever how we feel our bodies anyway, the reason why I'm talking about that is because I'm not a doctor or a nutritionist, but I'm really interested in that. So whenever I say ignore, you're also studying nutrition. I'm also studying Yeah, I know. But I don't want people with like I just my own view on the whole thing. But obviously, everyone says the main cause of heart disease and heart stuff is cholesterol. So I would naturally have a fear of it, given my health anxiety stuff. But the more sort of research and stuff that I'd started to do it within nutrition and alarming the main way I lost a lot of weight when I was like unhealthily booze heavy, if you like, was through the ketogenic diet, which is eat as much fat as you possibly can with some protein and some carbs on the side. And I stripped way off it completely unfelt in all honesty, the best I've ever felt in my life, energy wise, everything like that. But when I was getting my blood tests, my doctor is like your cholesterol is really high or IRR. So then I went down into like a rabbit hole of cholesterol. And some of the research that I had read is that maybe it's not the be all and end all of heart disease and it's other things but this isn't a nutrition podcast, I'm gonna go down it but But what I'm saying is it's kind of when you're an anxious person, you start to question every decision that you make and use it the right one not just like you know, it will be it'll be fine but when I say normal personally because we're all normal but gentlemen, you emphasize that what if more than someone who doesn't have anxiety or health anxiety towards that so I guess every what I'm saying every time I would get my cholesterol on it's like, oh, you know, cholesterol is this high but your HDL is really good your triglycerides are low but the LDL your LDL, I'm like, Yeah, but what about this? What about this, but then it leaves that what if in my head so I always question myself, and like, what if I am actually just closing out all my arteries? Like what if that's the case? So I get more blood tests done? And what actually I'm actually really like, as weird as it sounds, I really like getting blood tests done. Because a lot that yeah, like data data, but so from that point, I found a new psychology. I don't know if I found anything. So I saw about another three psychologists that you
Fiona Weaver 19:26
went through a real healing journey that went through acupuncture. That was really kinesio logist I would never say
Ross 19:35
bought crystals I'm not knocking anyone likes crystals. But for me to buy crystals. It was a big thing. And I don't know why I bought the stones. It was packed. I was like, I was looking for any sort of cure for my anxiety.
Fiona Weaver 19:49
But I always say like, I would never be able to say about you. Ross is so anxious, but he's not doing anything about like no you know, you you always It works to your detriment at the same time. Yeah. Because you think the next person you're going to see the next appointment you have will be the fix. Well, I just get this message. Yeah, but osteo? Or,
Ross 20:12
yeah, because you're always looking for validation of what that sensation is like, for me, I'm like, I don't feel I don't feel anxious because I'm, and again, this is probably the wrong way to say, this is how I feel. I don't feel anxious because I feel anxious and I'm causing this sensation. Even though that may very well be the case. It's the sensation that's making me feel anxious. And because I'm so in tune with my body and what it does, like
Fiona Weaver 20:43
the symptoms are there.
Ross 20:45
Yes. Yeah. Like the the other day, a few weeks ago, I'm talking about the one I've got right now just yet. But like, that bruise I had on my stomach. Because I literally, I couldn't. I didn't know where it came from. And I was like, what I don't I don't get bruises that often. And I got that bruise. I'm like, what the hell I can't remember like, how do I get that bruise on? My stomach is a weird place. And then I'm like, oh, I'll
Fiona Weaver 21:08
just spin out that day. Well, cancer,
Ross 21:13
leukemia. Yeah, that was what I thought because, again, and everyone always says it, but it's hard. And people forget sometimes, like, Well, my version of anxiety anyway, it's like it's health anxiety. Yes. But you're also obsessive, compulsive and like, so the OCD
Fiona Weaver 21:32
diagnosis has been quite validating because
Ross 21:37
it has because I know that like I fixated on that bruise. And I was like, and again, like you just said, I'm a data driven, so I'm like, Okay, well, what is it then? Like, I remember hitting myself in the stomach or clipping in my belt into my stomach or doing in the pram? I mean, there's all these different things. I'm like, Well, what is it? And I'll sit there and be like, stare them, fucking wall and go back to the last like days and just be like, Okay, what's this? What's that? Did I do that? I can't remember doing that. Did noxee Hit me for some reason, like, play hit? And if I can't find the reason of it, then there's only one explanation for it. And that's cancer. Yeah. Which is shit. Because
Fiona Weaver 22:25
you'll you'll see a bruise on me and say, you got a bruise. And you're like, was that from another leg? Yeah. And then that that's on with the day? Yeah. But you see things on your body that nobody else would even take notice of
Ross 22:37
100%? Yeah. few bumps like what we're at Rock rashes. I have I've been bitten by something like that's the kind of lighting level it goes. And it's exhausting. Like, yeah, you just. But it's also kind of cool. That's what the nice thing is like, I actually really think it's incredible that the brains able to do that. And I understand you know, the fight or flight stuff, and especially in a panic attack, why you feel like you feel which to be honest, it's like the more I think about it, and everyone's like, are that your fight or flight, sir? Because you would run away from a dinosaur, whatever it was, but I think it's fight flight and freeze now. Whatever they call it. But like, I feel like I'm going to die. I don't know. That level of like, heightened senses and stuff. We don't know if I actually feel that like the evolutionary version of it is that's freeze, isn't it? I think so. But it's like, I don't know, though. Maybe. But then I've said to you before, like, there's there's situations where I'm actually like, I don't have fear towards normal, fearful stuff.
Fiona Weaver 23:56
Know, you don't you're not particular times.
Ross 23:57
Like if I'm like, I'm not a very good surfer. But if I'm surfing and a bigger wave comes, I'm not bloody feeling that come to whip and I'll get anxious, but nowhere near the level of anxiety that I would get from a random feeling in my body. Yeah, exactly. And like bungee jumping or what? Like, I've done that before, not 20 Not even felt, I felt a little bit nervous. But not, I'd never even thought about the fact that there's more chance of that thing snapping than me having a heart attack right now.
Fiona Weaver 24:25
But you feel scared of things that are actually safe.
Ross 24:29
Well, yeah, or things that I cannot put my thumb on to what it is like I can I can look at a bungee jump or I can look at the size of a wave and, and assess that risk in seconds and be like, it's a good time for me to paddle out because it's a size I'm comfortable in or it's not. Yeah, but and or I'll just go like 5050 and then the odd one comes out and I'm like, fuck, here we go. I'm going about to get smoked. But I still feel comfortable. We've taken that risk whereas like when so Nothing happens in my body. And I can't live by my mind can't put it on, especially if it's up here or anything to do with my heart, then it's yeah, no, it's done. Sorry. Yeah.
Fiona Weaver 25:13
You want us answer some questions? Sure. So when you were having a bit of a hard time, the other day, we put up a question sticker on my stories. And we've got so many questions, and also so many messages of support.
Ross 25:27
Thank you guys. Because that really means a lot. It's anyone that goes for anxiety, it's very hard to discuss, or reason with people who have anxiety at certain time. And like, when fi showed me these it, it means a lot. So thank you.
Fiona Weaver 25:42
Yeah, and lots of people saying that their partners also experience it, or they experience it, and really grateful for sharing. So I'm happy that we have this space to do this. All right. This is a yes or no, and I'm gonna say a hard Yes. Do you feel alcohol affects your anxiety?
Ross 26:02
Of 100%? Yes. But I will put this on, there's times where I'm going to try and say this in the right way. Sometimes I'll have a few drinks. And it I can feel like I don't have anxiety anymore, which I know is the effect of it. Right? Like I get that. However, the repercussions of that the next day where everything is on another level. Yeah. And I mean, everyone's been hungover before, probably, but like the feeling you get of swaying is like a big lie. I mean, you just lose it. So I try to do my best to limit it. But I will say, I love a beer.
Fiona Weaver 26:53
The Hangover anxiety is the worst because I know if I am hungover, I can feel my heart beating in my chest. I can feel every beat. And I can handle that. And it's just a little bit unpleasant. But for you who has anxiety about the heart, and then you always think there's something wrong with your heart. When you've had some drinks and I just want to shake you and slap you and say yes, because you're fucking hungover. That's what happens. Your heart gets. I don't know. Is it faster? Or it feels like bigger Yeah, thins your blood. So you get into blood. There you go. Alright. What helps you to manage gym?
Ross 27:29
Routine? Yeah, if I'm doing the same thing every day, I exercise every day. I
Fiona Weaver 27:35
rituals as well.
Ross 27:36
Like if I'm when I'm at my best I do. Like, I'll breathe. I'll do like a, I mean, everyone's probably heard this Wim Hof. Dude, if I get if I'm really into it, then I'll start doing him in the morning. I'll have not get your head out of the gutter. Make
Fiona Weaver 27:56
it do the Wim Hof breathing.
Ross 28:02
Wim Hof breathing in the morning. And then cold showers in the morning is what I would recommend not recommend. And I've I can't recommend but that's what I would do. And then just a routine. So I'd like go to the beach for a swim on certain days, I'd know that. That day was the day I was going to take Sally to kindy on her on the bike. And then I'd come back. And when I got home, I'd say hello to everyone play around with the kids. And I'll be working out at 530 for an hour. And then everything's just in its place as it should be. Which I guess I don't know if it's a healthy thing or an OCD thing. But like,
Fiona Weaver 28:44
it's definitely a protective factor when when things are really hard. I remember, I was speaking with a psychologist at the time where you were really bad in 2020. And I was using it as my space to how the fuck do I support him and also help. But we kind of worked out that the morning routine was so helpful for you that if I could step back and hand that over, like for it to come from me, I would get frustrated if you were just not available or helpful in the mornings because you're anxious. But if I could take ownership and say, These mornings are for you, I'm giving you the mornings you do whatever you need to do, and I support you, and I've got this, then that would feel like I had a little bit of control as well. And also that's what you needed to have that space and that permission to have that space. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like beach swims. And bike rides and workout and breath work and whatnot. You also stopped coffee at that time too if you haven't had a coffee with me since
Ross 29:50
and it kills me because I'll actually genuinely love coffee.
Fiona Weaver 29:53
Yeah, you can just sniff mine. Ah, this is a good one. What do you find helpful from fi just validation or is there a time for a little push of talent? Such as this as good as mine?
Ross 30:06
It's like it's so hard to answer that question because I need at those times I need fee. And like it's so I think this is why like from a I'm gonna say it from a male perspective now it's and I shouldn't because you're my partner in life and cram but it's so dumb escalated to isn't Oh, sorry, it's I perceive it as emasculating. Is that worth letting know when you don't feel like a man
Fiona Weaver 30:49
in escalating? I think I should Google it because
Ross 30:52
yeah, I get this right. You're done for
Fiona Weaver 30:57
it's me escalating? No, I'm confident ask my mom.
Ross 31:03
Now shut up and swear and your mom can't hear me sir. Non masculine
Fiona Weaver 31:09
M escalating. Google me escalating. He also says apprehension This
Ross 31:16
is it I don't think that's fair.
Fiona Weaver 31:20
You're a smart guy
Ross 31:21
but some words english is not my thing. Give me a biochem Rishi question on anyone's
Fiona Weaver 31:27
deprive a man of his male role are
Ross 31:31
you going to cut that D masculine sound so as I like to make up words it's comes from my mother's side. It definitely comes from what's it called? A masculine masculine so it feels like I don't know if it's a thing but like I'm I shouldn't be protecting not the other way around. And I don't mean that in any sort of six as weird way
Fiona Weaver 31:53
just Yeah.
Ross 31:57
But does feel like that and I do ask for help from fever I don't know what she can help me with like it's I am so I'm sorry to any sort of psychologists or psychiatry people brain people out there but like I'm trying to explain as best as I can because you get so shut off from your logical your frontal lobe, your logical brain? That yeah, but you just like you're so shut off that there's no reason to it. Your only thing is to survive. Like that's it. And so all message fi like, oh my god, this is the last message I'm going to send you like there's times and it's fun, but I've said like I love you and the kid just made sure I love you and the kids cuz I again, you just feel like you're gonna die. There's no way that like the feeling of it is so shit.
Fiona Weaver 32:44
Then when you send those messages, what do you want back? You don't know.
Ross 32:49
That's the part like you could send to me like everything's gonna be okay. And I've said to you sometimes like, it's horrible. Like, I've been like nervous, like, I'm not going to be okay. Like, it's not like you're not feeling warm feeling how can you ever understand what I'm feeling? And it's not your fault that you can understand it. But you wouldn't wish it on? I mean, you might but like, on your worst enemy, but it's just yeah. You don't logically think about anything else you want. You want something you might like, but then you get like oh no, everything's gonna be fine. You've had this before. It's like but this is different. Yeah, I know I've had this before it's not changing how should it is the changing that feeling that I'm in I'm in a survival mode right now. And there's not one thing that you can do apart from which is one interesting thing that I learned from this podcast from I can't remember that maybe you can put it in the whatever the show notes there was two pocket two audios I would listen to remember that Dr. Claire weeks one. Yeah. If you got if you go on to YouTube, do the doctor type and Dr. Claire weeks and she'll take you through is very old audio but she's got an amazing voice and she just talks about I think it's called nervous disease or whatever. They called it back then. Yeah. Basically, what she says is like, your adrenaline can only pump through your body for 10 minutes. Like that's the maximum amount of drilling they can push out. And I guess like once you've sort of sat there and realize that maybe you can, you can sort of have a thing. You can think that you're gonna have a heart attack, but it's you kind of reasoned with yourself at the same time, like it's a panic attack. I'm not dead yet. I'm not dead yet. And I just have to get through the 10 minutes and one of the things is is that you just have to ride the wave for 10 minutes and sit there and the other podcasts are the audio hour I remember the name, but you literally said, You have to imagine that your feet are glued to the chair glued to the ground and your bum is glued to the chair or wherever you are, you're just stuck to the ground, and you have to just wait for that 10 minutes to go. The reason why panic attack can last longer is you can actually recycle back through it again, if you still stuck on the same thing. So it can last for longer. But your adrenaline rush at that time can only actually hope I'm getting this right, but like, lasts for 10 minutes. And that was like a big thing. It's just more like, knowing fi was just there. So if anything did happen, that that'll have someone that could call an ambulance or something like that. That is like the one thing that I think is the most? Well, for me, it was the most important. That was a very long winded answer. But I sort of went off a tangent, but it's hard to really say specifically because I think it would change for each individual. For me. It's just like knowing that someone that's why a lot of the time, if I'm just with the kids, you feel anxious, I feel which is shit. But I do feel anxious sometimes if I'm feeling particularly anxious that day, is that in my head? I'm like, okay, everything's feeling fine. But all that feeling in my chest wasn't good. Like who's going to who's going to be able to rescue me if this was to happen? And like how factors that I look at Knock sometimes I'm like, I wonder if he knows I'm dial 000. And I'm like, ice, the fact that I have that thought really shoots me
Fiona Weaver 36:35
find that stuff really hard. Because I also want to just feel like I know that you incredible with the kids. You already credible dad, but then when you get in your own head about being aligned with them. That's really hard. Yeah, that's been asked to them again, I feel like you can miss so much
Ross 36:53
I have missed so much. That's the hardest part. Like literally the hardest part of all of it is you miss so much being present time with the kids. And you know, there's times where like you I would speak in of the devil's, but there was times where I'd be you know, I should have taken men knocks me on camera together or means I could have done there. So all these things that you 100% be doing. But I most of the time, I'm unable to do it because the I can't put that level of stress on to knock.
Fiona Weaver 37:35
And then I get resentful. Someone asked how do you get him to open up to you my man finds it hard to articulate his feelings? I don't think I did that. Well, got you to open up to me.
Ross 37:48
I think it's a really good question. Like, I don't remember like a specific point where I just I've always been fairly open about it. And I think I would ask the question back does Yeah. Would that individuals husband, I don't know how to phrase it, probably. But has he spoken to anyone like a psychologist something like that, where he understands? That's what he's going through? Because once I understood what I was going through, then it became easier to talk about it.
Fiona Weaver 38:22
That's a good point. Very wise, my love. Well, to make sense of it,
Ross 38:28
you do because you don't know. Otherwise, it just you actually don't know how to clearly chat about it. And like say if it's less than 10 Gentle. If it's something that you're not sure about and you do you think there's something wrong, you can be you can struggle to talk about because you don't really know what you're trying to say. Yeah. Because if I said to Zaha, like, you didn't know Hank had anxiety. If I said to you, I'm feeling this way. But it feels like this, but doesn't feel like that. And it's so hard to like talk about you probably just shoo it away.
Fiona Weaver 39:08
Yeah. You know, yeah.
Ross 39:10
Which is, I really understand why people don't want to talk about it. Because it's also if you've been through it for a while, and you've dealt with some of the panic attacks or just even heightened anxiety then. I don't know, and especially
Fiona Weaver 39:24
in code as well. What sorry, man code, like, men don't talk about their feelings.
Ross 39:30
Well, that's a massive problem. It is a massive problem. And but I see also the society that has, I mean, I think it's getting way better as a lot of groups I live in I think, is a really good group and that push up for push for better stuff that I do each year, where it's sort of getting, and there's a lot of like male groups now like that really encouraged Should men to talk to other men about it? And I think it's a massive point that you do you still even when you're doing it, you know, you feel like you know, I'm with my mates, they'll know that I've got anxiety and some people really talk to me about it. Others will be like, Yeah, ha not be pushy, but as a joke, even though they know what I'm going through, and then there's other guys are just, you know, give me a cuddle. And you just have those specific people to talk to you about I think, I think back to the question, you just need to, it's an understanding of do does he know or understand that that's what he's going through? And that is anxiety? Or is he not done the checks? Or is it some people like, I'm one of those people that go out and get as many tests done as possible to confirm that it's not, but other people were actually quite afraid to go and get all the tests in case they find something.
Fiona Weaver 40:52
Yeah, right. Which leads me to my next question. Somebody has asked, Is it expensive? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Last week was a bad week. And it was psychologists, which I wouldn't even count because that's just never a thought. But that was 100 something dollars? osteo 100. odd dollars. And then two doctor's appointments. A message and a message? Yeah. So what have been close to $500. Last
Ross 41:23
week? Yeah. All right. Every week? No, but when I was going through all the tests and stuff like that, send us broke? No, no, it was raw.
Fiona Weaver 41:35
Okay, how do you respond when you know he doesn't need the ACCESS test? This is really hard, because I will never, ever tell Ross to not go to the hospital or not. Get a test. Would you agree? I will always try to talk you through it. But I feel like I can recognize that that would not feel good for you. Me saying don't go to the hospital don't call an ambulance.
Ross 42:10
I think a lot of the time as well. I guess I'm half looking for validation from you as well. It's hard because the obviously you're not a doctor or you don't know what, what I feeling what I'm feeling inside or even you can't see if my arteries are blocked.
Fiona Weaver 42:30
I feel confident though, that I know when it's anxiety.
Ross 42:35
100%
Fiona Weaver 42:36
Because you get the symptoms of having a heart attack. But I've seen everything leading up to it.
Ross 42:42
Yeah. And that's a really good point. Because you with the, with the anxiety part of it. You don't there's always a pattern, which I never feel, which is that part leading up to it. Like, I don't feel the bit like you know, you you'll see the amount of times I like I'll push my chest each day or to poke my throat and check my pulse. Like, yeah, for me, that's just like, it's so it's such it's been so habit form now that just feels like
Fiona Weaver 43:16
you don't notice anything? Yeah, I don't notice it. Yeah. But I also have to sit with the fact that, like, anything can happen to anyone at any time. Yeah, well, I wouldn't ever say you are not. Do you know what I mean? Like, I know that you're not having a heart attack. And that's like, this is so this is what happened the other day, when I put this question thing on Instagram the other day, it was when you were kind of coming down from having a really rough few days, lots of checking lots of appointments and things. And then we're going to record the interview. And then that night you wanted to call an ambulance because you thought you were having a heart attack. And you were talking about writing letters to the kids. And then the next day, you went to a massage appointment. And then you text me saying, um, Edie, Edie? I'm so sorry. I didn't know what to do. Yeah. And then when you were at Ed, the bloody nurse gave you some misinformation. So you sat there for about two hours in between blood tests thinking that you had heart damage so that you were essentially being told Actually, yes, all these feelings were right. You have had something happen. And then I was sitting there thinking, this is my worst nightmare, because now I do not know what the next many years are gonna look like because he is going to think I was right the whole time. They should have listened to me. No one was listening. Everyone thought it was my anxiety and something actually did happen. And then I had to sit with that. Which is a very real thing. Yeah, anything can happen.
Ross 44:58
And it absolutely can then, like, I don't know. And that's where it's get super hard because you can't predict it. And from my, the experience that I have is I need to be able to predict it when she can't, which I can't, but I want to be able to do everything I can to limit the chance of that happening. Again, and the weird part about is if I walked out on the string or hit by a bus, but yeah, fair enough. But like anything I can do within my own body to stop my own body from failing itself. Then That, for me is like, where the thing how even I could do all that and something still happen. And I understand that I'm obviously going to die one day. But
Fiona Weaver 45:54
is it a fear of dying?
Ross 45:55
Well, no, because I'm not afraid to die. Eventually. Just not right now. From heart stuff.
Fiona Weaver 46:04
So frustrating.
Ross 46:05
I know. It's
Fiona Weaver 46:06
so annoying, because your fear takes you away from the very life you are alive living. Yeah. Fish. No. No, not all the time. But in stages. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing you feel like it's protecting you, but actually, it's just taking you away from where you need to be. Yeah, yeah. Which, as we know, a lot of this shit does not make any sense. So it's not me having go at you know, I understand like, it's just stupid. Yeah. It's also I hate it. It's also like really cool. It is interesting. How does his anxiety affect family life the kids and you as his partner all there's a few questions there.
Ross 47:05
How does it affect the law? Do want to answer that one?
Fiona Weaver 47:10
The biggest thing for me is that it takes you away. Yeah. And I like it takes you away from doing things that you could do by yourself. Yeah, like it's that dependency of me to be nearby just in case so you can't do things on your own with the kids all the time. Not that you do it a lot, but it definitely does hold you back. And if you are experiencing anxiety or panic especially when we're all around you just emotionally and mentally disappear
Ross 47:44
Yeah, I don't have any one on like I always describe it to myself as if I've rolled my eyes back in the back of my head and I'm just literally looking down at my whole body. Like I don't have a clue what's going on in front of me. Yeah, that's the like the best way to describe it in those in those situations in regards to like
Ross 48:10
the day to day stuff is that I guess for what it is like take some time with tech not because it just out
Ross 48:25
where it should be like a thoughtless process really as like this is going to have some fun for me it's I have to assess that 15 Different things first, not because I always want to be around the kids and playing with the kids and doing whatever I can but I have to do as much after almost tell myself that everything's gonna be okay to be able to do it and even when I am there, I probably as sad as it sounds, is that like, I'm probably only ever 70% present with them.
Fiona Weaver 49:03
That's thing as well when we fucking sir. Yeah. When we go out as a family or something, and there's just always this energy that you want to get home? Not all the time. Not all the time. Yeah. That Yeah. When you are outweighing when you're anxious. You're not You're not anxious all the time. There's always a part of it with you. But you weren't like we're not like this all the time. But that's when it's hard when you are anxious and we're out and there's just this energy like you're frustrated and you just need it to it's because you need to escape
Ross 49:46
Yeah, yeah. So irritable, irritable, and just like, I don't know, it's sometimes you just need like, a safe space and Then and, and a lot of it is a lot of anxiety is, is embarrassment to like you thinking to yourself like you know, I can't collapse here, even though it's very unlikely to happen but like, you know, we're at the surf club and I start feeling super anxious and like, Okay, we gotta go, we gotta go, I can't be here. I can't be here because I can't collapse here because everyone in this room will see me collapse. Because actually, I've watched a documentary on that before and a psychologist, a psychologist took these health anxiety or anything. Health anxiety is actually
Fiona Weaver 50:42
it's not remember the psychiatrists told you it's not
Ross 50:44
even it's not even but it's not like health anxiety itself. I don't even think it's in DSM DSM. But yeah, he the psychiatrist told me, it was a panic disorder with OCD.
Fiona Weaver 50:56
Which I mean, I feel like you definitely do have panic disorder and OCD. Yeah. But when he said he didn't have health anxiety and what have you.
Ross 51:06
Well, I think he was just going by whatever but I mean, it's obviously a well known term, but it's not like Mozart talks about
Fiona Weaver 51:17
your watch your documentary with a psychology Oh,
Ross 51:18
yeah. And he like went into a supermarket in fact, passing out to see how it because this chick that she was with was so afraid to find. And it's a loss of control thing, right. So he, she, he like went into the supermarket. I can't remember where he was Tesco in the UK, I think it was. And he passed out. And basically, it was just showing the lady like, there's about three or four people went over to him and see if it's all if it was all right now and was laughing It's all like a laughing thing. It's just like, I don't know, you just feel like humiliation. Yeah, humiliation week.
Fiona Weaver 51:56
Yeah. Vulnerability vulnerable. Mm hmm. Maybe Gabor Ma Tei will listen.
Ross 52:10
Kobol Matej Gabor Ma. Tei.
Fiona Weaver 52:11
Okay,
Ross 52:13
you put me through one of his psychedelic treatments. That would be good. That would be ideal. Wouldn't it
Fiona Weaver 52:17
be awful that? Does your health anxiety affects the way you think about the kids being sick? No. Interesting isn't a Yeah. gastro is annoying. Like if someone you've been through bouts where it's focused on gastro. So if the kids don't seem right, or something, then you're like, oh, it's gastro.
Ross 52:40
I think though. To be fair, I do probably have this much more anxiety than a normal parent will gastro but I think everyone agrees that when gastro hits or someone gets gastro close by you kind of like fuck that. Because,
Fiona Weaver 52:59
yeah, when they get gastro, they're enough.
Ross 53:02
I don't think I've been I mean, in the past or whatever. recently. I've had gastro more than
Fiona Weaver 53:06
No, it hasn't been you think lately, but Castro has definitely been where it's directed sometimes. And choking. Yeah, trying to eat. You basically couldn't be around when I was feeding knocks.
Ross 53:19
I feel like I've got pretty decent trauma from choking though. Yeah, you did shake like badly when I was a kid
Ross 53:28
choking the coin. Maybe it's all from that. But I've done I'd like explore that.
Ross 53:37
I've explored that stuff though. Well, I don't know if I have I tried EMDR once which is I move my movement Desai centers at di cheese desensitization what's the last one?
Fiona Weaver 53:59
Rapid? Yeah,
Ross 54:01
it's pretty cool. But I think it's more that's more associated with the the RE configuration of trauma in your brain rather than like anxiety stuff.
Fiona Weaver 54:13
Yeah, cuz we don't know whether there was specific trauma.
Ross 54:17
No. But that's that's interesting story for anyone that's got trouble
Fiona Weaver 54:22
when you do Ayahuasca one day. Maybe you'll find
Ross 54:26
it. I am like seriously interested in microbes dosing psilocybin Yeah. And that's like my personal choice out of probably anxiety was I haven't taken any any other sort of medication and I don't for me, personally I it's not for me, but I am completely understand what others do it. But I think it's more of an anxiety thing that reasons that I haven't taken either, if that makes sense.
Fiona Weaver 54:59
Yeah. It's, um, that's been a source of tension for us too, hasn't it? Yeah, like when it was really, really bad and 2020 and I, I was just as desperate as you my own way. I'm like, fucking try the medication. You don't have to be on it forever. Just give it a go. Like, try it. I don't think you have to. Because my thing was like, I don't think you know what normal feels like.
Ross 55:24
I don't? Yeah, for a long time. But um, I don't know, I think
Fiona Weaver 55:29
I also value that. If that's your values, I will never make you know, I know. And I think you Yeah. And also, you've had really great success through exercise routine, like rituals, yeah, breath, work, all that stuff. But it's just, you need to be so controlled with all of that, like drinking. And that's also what we live a good life. You know, we enjoy a drink with our friends we enjoy. You know, it's not so it's not that controlled.
Ross 56:05
Yeah, I think like that's, I mean, I don't I wouldn't. I wouldn't say I'm a big drinker like a manual you're
Fiona Weaver 56:13
not but drinking doesn't serve you like no drinking more than a glass of wine or two at night. Yeah. doesn't serve you because it gets you heart rate up and whatever the next day and sleep. And it makes your sleep really, really bad. And sleep is a trigger for you.
Ross 56:31
Yeah, this massive snowball. Lack of sleep increases heart palpitations by 20%. I think I heard.
Fiona Weaver 56:41
Yeah, makes sense. And for everyone else, that's just bit unpleasant. And that's it. For you. It's like, I'm dying. So someone has asked me when did it start? Did you ever suffer general and anxiety and it turned to health anxiety?
Ross 56:56
General Anxiety Disorder was my first official diagnosis. That was when when I spoke earlier about the soccer pitch incident. That's when they diagnosed me with General Anxiety Disorder. I think, personally, again, I think it was always health associated, to be honest. And again, I'm not really I'm not. I'm not entirely sure if health anxiety or that is, I don't know what the exact diagnosis is in the DSM, which is like the, what's the actual terminology for it, but the the book of die diagnosis for mental health? That there they, it's, I was pretty anxious about everything at that at the start, because I was so green to the whole thing that I didn't know what was going on, until you started, I did cognitive behavioral therapy. And that was awesome. And then if I got too interested in it, if that's such a thing, because I delved into the whole thing, so much like I was obsessed with learning about it, I think where the OCD stuff comes in. And I just but then I've always kind of like, had this thing about my heart for some reason. And I haven't really delved into it that much of like, why it was be about the heart. But
Fiona Weaver 58:42
do you remember what the psychologists or the N? Yes. And she did a genogram with you and went back through your family history and realized that everybody in your family died really late. But before that, you sort of had an idea that heart stuff ran in the family?
Ross 59:02
Yeah. For years I thought my grandpa had I remember vividly like watching my grandpa like roll around in pain on the bed and big ambulance call. He was throwing himself around. He was quite crazy. Actually. I think I was about 13.
Fiona Weaver 59:19
And he'll card I think he used to say that. I watched my
Ross 59:24
great yeah, a lot. Yeah. I always thought he had a heart attack. But he ended up it was like a an ulcer that had ruptured in his stomach. I think it turned out to them. I didn't find that out until two years ago. I think Mom told me two years ago, but I do know that he also had a triple heart bypass as well. But I think it I think it has been more from that day, it's been more aggressively health anxiety than anything else. Specifically, the last two years when it was all about This Skip Beat. I think I slept out on the table earlier. And how often
Fiona Weaver 1:00:07
slept out in table? Yep, topic. heartbeats.
Ross 1:00:13
Yeah, they're the ones like they're called pa sees and PVCs premature atrial contraction and premature ventricle contraction so basically rather than my only go to biological but rather than my normal start a heartbeat dude sinus node one of my other chambers in my heart has an electrical pulse and triggers it and it stops fills up. Does that and I feel it. So apparently nine out of 10 people get it, they just don't feel it. Yeah. And I'm one of those people because I'm an probably a lot of other people with anxiety and I know get it because I've been a part of many forums that those people have it as well and they feel it and the more anxiety actually makes them worse because you deplete your magnesium stores and rara rara but that's for another podcast. Because I can go down that rabbit hole real good.
Fiona Weaver 1:01:32
Okay, um what do you love most about each other?
Fiona Weaver 1:01:44
You go first No, match it.
Ross 1:01:45
Okay. I love the bit I love the most is that I'll go play golf frequently. And she has this look on her face. I'm like, I'm gonna go play golf. Now. I'm like, go to the range this week, and I'm gonna have a few beers. And she just goes oh, wait, they can't see me. Can they get on the video? But she does this like little strain face and she's like, Okay, see you soon. Um, but she knows how much I love golf. So she doesn't say anything about
Fiona Weaver 1:02:17
the hard thing about anxiety. I know how much you need. Things like that. So I would rather support you to do that. Then have you more anxious around me?
Ross 1:02:37
And she's funny too. I'll give her that she's funny. She's not very good cook though.
Fiona Weaver 1:02:42
Not a very good cook that strategic. Yeah, I love that you cook and I love that you talk about this stuff. And I also love that you are there sometimes that I just look at your face. I just really love you. Particularly when you're smiling and you laughing
Ross 1:03:02
That's actually such a hard question to ask because it's like
Fiona Weaver 1:03:06
oh no, no, you're actually just fun. Like I fell in love with you because you had your quirks and was just you were just interesting. Like later I found out that those quirks were severe. And then cause some trouble later
Ross 1:03:21
on ask you a question then. How would you have known that back then?
Fiona Weaver 1:03:25
How'd you resent what because you've asked this to me before what I still what
Ross 1:03:34
I don't know like how'd you have seen still signed up we don't just say no
Fiona Weaver 1:03:39
no but also no I just love all of you
Ross 1:03:43
are just doing like again this is probably like a good conversation piece because it's not look at me conversation please. slapping it out slapping on the table I've lost my train of thought
Fiona Weaver 1:04:02
but like you do say that sometimes so
Ross 1:04:05
no but what I mean is that I think sometimes you feel like anxiety is like the from the outside looking in like people looking at you is really really off putting in big thing is like people think you're crazy. When I guess the right people the right persons and again some people will look at you and think you're crazy. There's no there is I've had people do that. Yeah, like Yeah, and that's fine. And fuck them but like the people around you or the people that like mean the most they're not. They're not going to think that even when you're at your craziest because I've been real. Like, sorry, that's not the right terminology. Even when you're at your worst, and you're and you're doing things that like thinking about things like weird things in your body, like, you could lie there and be like, I'm dying, I'm dying. I'm dying. And it's clear that you're not from the outside.
Fiona Weaver 1:05:10
Well, there's been times where you have thought you were psychotic. I remember distinctly a time walking down the beach, I think I was pregnant with Knox. And you were holding my hand and saying, like, basically will I be okay? Do you have to take me somewhere?
Ross 1:05:34
And that's because like, I do you remember that now? And it's not. It's it's such a tug of war. Like, everyone has their thoughts that go like, you know, you can you can sit there and daydream all day about these stores, but like, your thoughts are like, You're fine, you're fine, you're fine. But whatever this you find, you're fine. You're just constantly going back and forth, like talking about talking to warring about. It is real good. It's getting late. I was saying weird things about two hours ago. But you, you go back and forth in your own head, and you're like, oh my god, like, is this normal? Like, is this normal for me to be thinking like that? And you know, that there's always that like, stereotypical like voices in your head, but it's not voice in your head. You're just having different thoughts about the same situation. It's like and yeah, you do sometimes you do. You know, feel like you cry on people all the time. They're like they think that going to
Fiona Weaver 1:06:40
go and see a psychologist
Ross 1:06:41
going to see a psychologist like can meet completely labels you as crazy. Like cats shit, isn't it? It is because it's like, you know, every stupid fucking stereotypical American movies like aren't going to see the shrink. Yeah. And then someone said to me the other day, I was talking to someone about going to a psychologist, and he's like, so what do you have to lie down on one of those sofas and stuff? And he's someone very close to me, but like it. I was like, No, you don't do that. Like you go there. And you talk about whatever you want. And they help you to make sense of it. And you can pretty much say whatever you want to them. You could be like, You know what, my I want to go and I want to be a tree. And like, they can't like they're not gonna go they can't. They've got some private confidential. Yeah, don't talk about it be like, Okay, well explain to me why you want to be a tree. I don't know why. But gentlemen, like this, I
Fiona Weaver 1:07:40
always had an affinity with trust. Yeah.
Ross 1:07:42
But he's just only takes one time to go out or what? I think I explained it to there's a scene in stepbrothers, where he's like, I can't remember he says, the dad's like, you just go out and be what you want to be when I was kid. I used to be want to be a dinosaur. But like,
Fiona Weaver 1:08:02
yeah, it's another one of your coping strategies is stupid TV.
Ross 1:08:07
Laughter is the best medicine right?
Fiona Weaver 1:08:09
Spacing out. It's really good, too. What's the most extreme? What's the most extreme thing your health anxiety has pushed you to do? Or believe what's happening? I think that's one of them is thinking that you've completely lost your mind.
Ross 1:08:27
Yeah, definitely. It's definitely that. And then, for me, personally, it's been the just not trusting. Not trusting doctors. One of the people I went to was one of the leading cardiologists in Australia. I actually looked him up because I wanted to see all of his credentials and stuff. And he had, he'd done like some stupid heart operations, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it took me a long time to trust him. So it's you spend money, it doesn't
Fiona Weaver 1:09:14
matter who it is, or what they tell you all the tests that you do, yeah, you'll still find a way to like this, that they've missed something
Ross 1:09:23
you mentioned this week for me this kind of just touched on this week real quick. Yeah. So this week, I had a work trip over the weekend. Fell fine on Sunday. I was like, oh, there's a little feeling in my chest. Monday, I went to work and the chip like this feeling on my chest and like just up here, and it was like a slight tightness. And then from now I just spiraled. Thought it was a heart attack went to the doctor on Tuesday, ECG, blood pressure, listen to my heart. Everything looks fine, right? Most definitely not your heart. Definitely your lungs gave me about three hours of reassurance. Next day, went to work left work early, went home wasn't feeling that great. wasn't feeling that great, not sick, but like, anxiety wise. And then I've just been like pushing my chest all the time because I'm like, Okay, what is this? It's probably angina, the way it's feeling. It's always like the start of a heart attack. Like, now it's up in my neck. And I can listen to I think it was Tuesday, we went and picked Sally up from kindy. And we were talking to one of our teachers who had a heart attack. And she explained her heart attack of being something in the neck. And ah,
Fiona Weaver 1:10:50
didn't put that together. I did. I knew as she was talking, I was like, I want to, sometimes I want to protect you from it. But actually,
Ross 1:11:01
I can't Yeah, you can't even make that. And like, you know, had it had been had it had been like, had I not have that sensation already. Then I probably wouldn't have batted an eyelid at it. It was just that particular timing and how I was feeling that day. And I've latched on to it. And then I don't know I could like like I say, there's half of it. There's like an anxiety, you can create the sensations like I think they're called psycho somatic sensations, I think. But I latched on to that. And then on Thursday, I went to another I did change, I went to a different doctor, and got a second opinion. And he did the same tests on me did the same thing. Check my heart, that ECG, everything's fine. Your heart looks fine.
Fiona Weaver 1:11:56
When you came back from that you like, and he left me with the ECG machine, which was really stupid, because then you started googling all
Ross 1:12:02
of this. Yeah, I said, and you got and then he gave me that. And I was like, oh, what does that mean? Oh, what does that mean? Yeah, does that mean and then again, stupid for me, but I'm half interested in half dumb. So I just did that. And then was it that was Thursday, I think. And then went to work for like two hours gown and said I was just I just had to leave what? Sorry. Okay. And then on Friday, I'm booked in for a massage because I'd have convinced myself it was just muscular after two doctors that have done that. medical degrees, told me everything was fine. I just assumed okay, it's gonna, it can't be angina. It's not a heart attack. So I'll go and get a massage and went to a massage felt really great after a massage Hannah panic and panic attack on the car and drove to ER. And
Fiona Weaver 1:13:00
I got your text as I was interviewing my friend for the podcast. And I was like Russell said, Ed, and put it down, but, but I was obviously holding on to it.
Ross 1:13:09
Yeah. But so to answer that, so desensitized. Yeah, I was just one of those. So I keep going on these tangents. So I apologize. But to answer that question, the most extreme thing I've done my health anxiety is just the numerous amounts of appointments and money spent on clarifying over and over and over again, everything's completely normal. And the truth of it is the, I don't know, I just feel like I don't know if I'll ever stop having stages in my life where I just have to go through these things. Like, as sad as that sounds, because I've done so much treatment. Now when I'm good, I'm really good. And then I just have these moments where it's like, yeah,
Fiona Weaver 1:13:59
there's part of me that wants to just normalize that and just, you know, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. I don't want to me it's like, you do not know what normal is. You do not know how you can feel. No, you know, no, I know that that Friday ad session as well, just to add, so all day you thought that something bad happened to your heart and then you got that reassurance, then you're on a high after spending that whole day ad. Do you remember your super reassured you came home and you had some work drinks on wish you'd had you know in the calendar for a long time. But in my head I was like, you just went through that all day. And now you get to come home and feel good and just go out for drinks and just forget that you were messaging me saying you're gonna die. You had the car so I had to have find another way to get to school. I had to tell noxee You had an appointment because I couldn't take him to karate. Like all that kind of stuff that like all of it. There's so much fallout. Yeah, that comes from you being in. Again. This has never got you. It really isn't. Like, I'm just I'm fucking angry at your anxiety. And it's never at you. I just wanted to know why you're so angry at it. So frustrating. Like you just get in there all the time. Yeah. And like, and then it goes back to normal.
Ross 1:15:34
There's no next time and it's hard because I get all that I get that reassurance. Yeah. And like when you saw me, when I came back, like I've been in ER, or whatever, we call it a pretty you trigger my one
Fiona Weaver 1:15:50
on ones right now you're gonna get some.
Ross 1:15:59
Yeah, I can add a second back in London. But it's the after you get the reassurance you get. I get like such a dopamine hit.
Fiona Weaver 1:16:12
Yeah, I know. I know. And I say it'll play out annoys me.
Ross 1:16:16
But you know what, though, when I went out on those drinks, I literally had a couple of drinks. And even when I was there, the reassurance don't mean spiking worn off. And I was pretty ready to come home quite quickly.
Fiona Weaver 1:16:34
You still called me and pretend that you're going to the casino with the boys. And I was wild was
Ross 1:16:43
a lot pan your little prank on you. It wasn't
Fiona Weaver 1:16:45
a funny one. I was angry. Okay, let's go. Do you continue to see the same doctor or get a different opinion? Many different opinions. But you do find some doctors who trust more than others and you feel comfortable to go to?
Ross 1:16:57
Yeah, I've had one very good doctor in my time. And I don't know where he is. Now. He left me water. He was awesome.
Fiona Weaver 1:17:07
What are you listening?
Ross 1:17:09
Because he was very thorough. And didn't sort of like I've had doctors as well that have been like I've shooed away at the fact like you find is just anxiety, like, get on with it. And it's like, I'm a slap the shit out of you talk like, it's not aggressive at all. That's just I get so frustrated with some of them. And that
Fiona Weaver 1:17:33
would be the worst thing to hear when you have anxiety, people having anxiety, but it's a lot of the time what I want to say to you.
Ross 1:17:39
Yeah, but you've always said to me as well, like you would I would be really annoying. Not annoying. Sorry. You said what was your exact words? Something about me being a very frustrating patient.
Fiona Weaver 1:17:50
I was thinking about it with psychology, like you would be really hard work because you do so much research yourself. Yeah. That nobody would feel like they I would I would feel like I'm always being questioned by you.
Ross 1:18:08
What will one like with I think it was Woody. When he mentioned about my cholesterol. It took him five studies. But it takes a long time to find a new doctor and he left and I finally found one now that I think will work with me. Well and I think that's a really good conversation actually. Because as a health anxiety sufferer. Warriors one batla batla. There's, it's, it's really important to find a doctor that you can trust. And I don't know if I can trust this dude. Yeah, I just know that I've had my specific conversation starters with him and he's answered all the questions of my interrogation correctly. correctly. Yeah, that's well know correctly. Sorry, he I like it because he challenged me I challenged him and we ended up on the same kind of page. So this is the guy who was recommended to you by your sacrilege. Yes, he my psychologist recommended me because he's dealt with with health anxiety before so and yeah. Other psychologists might have their particular doctors that they send them to.
Fiona Weaver 1:19:21
So I am cutting him off again, like I always do just there. And we will come back for a part two of this conversation later this week. I'll see you then. Thank you so much for listening to mama chatters if you enjoyed this episode, let's continue the conversation on Instagram at MAMA matters.au. Be sure to share this app with your family and friends. And don't forget if you liked it, please leave a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you again and I will see you next time.
